Limitless Podcast

Ejaaz:
Welcome back to the weekly AI roundup. It's been another huge week.

Ejaaz:
NVIDIA became the first company to cross $5 trillion in market value,

Ejaaz:
but they're closely followed behind by Apple and Microsoft to cross $4 trillion

Ejaaz:
in market cap value. Some big numbers being thrown around.

Ejaaz:
OpenAI had a pretty controversial week. They restructured their entire company,

Ejaaz:
but they also revealed their secret plans for AGI over the next 10 years.

Ejaaz:
Elon Musk decided to release an AI version of Wikipedia called Grokipedia,

Ejaaz:
powered by their flagship model Grok. We'll get into that.

Ejaaz:
And finally, there is a new humanoid robot available to you for the cheap price of $499 per month.

Ejaaz:
Josh, there's a lot to get through to today.

Ejaaz:
Starting off with all the open AI news, There's two main things to discuss here.

Ejaaz:
They made two big announcements.

Ejaaz:
One was their vision for the next 10 years on achieving AGI.

Ejaaz:
And the second thing was on the restructuring. Starting with the AGI side of

Ejaaz:
things, Sam Altman came on live stream with his chief scientist,

Ejaaz:
Jakub, to describe what the vision of OpenAI is.

Ejaaz:
And I think this is in response to a lot of people saying, Sam,

Ejaaz:
like, do you have your best intentions at heart?

Ejaaz:
You keep saying that, but then your actions are kind of producing products that

Ejaaz:
might seem kind of consumery and not really big thinking, are you still focused on AGI?

Ejaaz:
So this is kind of like clearing the plate here. And there's three main takeaways

Ejaaz:
that I got from this that I found interesting.

Ejaaz:
Number one, Sam has extended his deadline to achieving AGI.

Ejaaz:
He says he's going to achieve it within 10 years, and it's going to be a slower

Ejaaz:
transition than initially expected.

Ejaaz:
He describes it as achieving AGI gradually over a number of different years.

Ejaaz:
This is interesting to me because we're finally achieving a realistic timeline,

Ejaaz:
in my opinion, versus some kind of like hype headline where we're just kind

Ejaaz:
of like thinking it's going to arrive tomorrow.

Ejaaz:
Number two, he's started giving solid milestones on this.

Ejaaz:
He says in 2026, the deep learning that OpenAI is conducting internally will

Ejaaz:
result in an AGI level science model, which will perform kind of at the caliber

Ejaaz:
of an AI research intern.

Ejaaz:
And then he says two years later in 2028, they'll have an AI researcher level model.

Ejaaz:
So you go from intern to research grade performance, which is super cool.

Ejaaz:
And the final point that really interested me was around compute.

Ejaaz:
Josh, they've spent or committed around $1.4 trillion on data centers right

Ejaaz:
now, which is roughly the equivalent of 30 gigawatts. It's a huge amount of compute.

Ejaaz:
But what shocked me the most was he came out and said that his eventual plan

Ejaaz:
is to have a factory built every week that produces a gigawatt of power.

Ejaaz:
That's about $20 billion of compute per week.

Ejaaz:
All really huge numbers kind of took my breath away. Josh, what's your take?

Josh:
OpenAI is just doing what everyone kind of knows they were always going to do.

Josh:
They very quickly realized they can't be a non-for-profit. They are now becoming

Josh:
a for-profit organization.

Josh:
In fact, it's a public benefit corporation. So it's a PBC, not an LLC or a Z-Corp

Josh:
or anything, which means the intention is to be kind of aligned with public

Josh:
interest, but basically it just blows the cap off of everything.

Josh:
And this is a really big deal.

Josh:
EJ, you mentioned that, or you mentioned to me actually earlier,

Josh:
and this was news to me, that Sam Altman expressed interest in going public.

Josh:
I think there's a big opportunity here to talk about how much money can be made by.

Josh:
OpenAI going public and by kind of restructuring this. So the restructuring deal is interesting.

Josh:
Are we ready to talk about that? Can we go into this like crazy chaotic restructuring

Josh:
that's happening? Okay.

Josh:
This is fascinating to me. So on screen, there is a disastrous diagram with a bunch of arrows.

Josh:
A lot of it is kind of hand-waving, not important. The things that matter,

Josh:
Microsoft owns a large percentage of the nonprofit.

Josh:
The nonprofit quickly realized they needed to become a for-profit.

Josh:
They had a capped upside on the previous version, but now they do not.

Josh:
So Microsoft was limited previously to a 100x return on their investment.

Josh:
Now there is no return on the investment or no limit to the return on the investment.

Josh:
And this is interesting for a few things, Ejaz, because one,

Josh:
I am very resentful of OpenAI because they are very clearly the fastest growing AI company in the world.

Josh:
And I have no way to get exposure to them. That doesn't feel like it's aligned with the public.

Josh:
Sam Altman is taking all the money for himself. He's throwing it at GPUs and I get no upside.

Josh:
That doesn't feel right. this is open AI, you're a public benefit company.

Josh:
Why are you not benefiting me as a member of the public?

Josh:
Second to this is that Microsoft now seems to be the best way to get exposure

Josh:
because there is this like,

Josh:
there is this way of getting access to open AI when they IPO,

Josh:
but open AI and Microsoft are now, or Microsoft's not the biggest stakeholder

Josh:
in the open AI company at 27% versus the open AI non-for-profit, which is actually 26%.

Josh:
So the largest form of exposure is through Microsoft. They have uncapped profits

Josh:
and they are reporting earnings, I think, this week.

Josh:
So Microsoft might be the best way to get exposure to OpenAI currently, but...

Josh:
OpenAI as a whole has kind of disappointed me through this whole process because

Josh:
it's all been very hand wavy and not really aligned with, I think,

Josh:
the public intention that they stated, just because they've always been this

Josh:
big for profit entity disguised as a nonprofit.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, I completely agree with a lot of the points you made.

Ejaaz:
And to just kind of give the listeners a bit of context here,

Ejaaz:
OpenAI founded in 2015 as a nonprofit.

Ejaaz:
It was set up as a nonprofit org with this ambitious vision of we are going

Ejaaz:
to achieve AGI and we are going to provide it to the people.

Ejaaz:
So everyone should have access to this super powerful technology.

Ejaaz:
Then four years later, in 2019, they decided, we kind of want to make a bit

Ejaaz:
of money from this and we need to raise a lot of capital.

Ejaaz:
So in 2019, they set up a for-profit structure, but it was owned by the non-profit.

Ejaaz:
So they could still get away with saying, hey, we're a non-profit.

Ejaaz:
But it was capped, as you said, Josh, to any investor for 100x, just 100x returns.

Ejaaz:
So a lot of feedback they've been getting and a lot of pressure they've been

Ejaaz:
getting from future investors or current investors recently is,

Ejaaz:
hey, we want to make more money on this deal.

Ejaaz:
It's unfair that we're investing billions in you.

Ejaaz:
Microsoft invested $13 billion and we want more upside than 100x.

Ejaaz:
So Sam went to the drawing board and was like, okay, we can create a new structure

Ejaaz:
called a public benefit corporation, which, as you said, now has uncapped gains. It's pretty crazy.

Ejaaz:
So now you can just make as much money as you can on a normal private company

Ejaaz:
that you were investing in.

Ejaaz:
And the biggest point around this is on this diagram here, you'll see if you

Ejaaz:
zoom in, if you squint, Microsoft, minority owner, they are now no longer a minority owner.

Ejaaz:
Like you said, they are the majority owner, which is just crazy.

Ejaaz:
But I'll tell you a few other reasons why Microsoft is a huge winner from all

Ejaaz:
of this. It's not just money.

Ejaaz:
It's not just the fact that their $13 billion stake is now worth $135 billion. What a crazy return.

Ejaaz:
But they still maintain exclusive access and rights to all of OpenAI's research

Ejaaz:
IP, which means that any kind of new model that they release,

Ejaaz:
Microsoft basically has the first say and exclusive access to provide it to

Ejaaz:
their partners, to their customers and any clients and enterprise clients that

Ejaaz:
they wanna bring in in the future.

Ejaaz:
Secondly, and this was a genius move, Josh, they set a standard.

Ejaaz:
They said, listen, OpenAI, We will relieve all our exclusive access and IP access

Ejaaz:
only once you've achieved AGI.

Ejaaz:
But of course, the obvious question is, what the hell is AGI?

Ejaaz:
How do you determine what AGI is? There's so much discussion around what the hell this thing is.

Ejaaz:
So they said, we'll leave it to an expert party of third-party analysts.

Ejaaz:
So it's a panel which is going to decide and determine OpenAI's fate going forward.

Ejaaz:
So the winner of all of this, this restructuring, this OpenAI vision announcement,

Ejaaz:
is actually Microsoft, and it's just crazy to see it.

Josh:
Okay, so how do you navigate this as a participant who wants to get wealthy off of AI?

Josh:
There is a few ways. I think for people who observe public markets,

Josh:
you'll know the fact that Apple is sitting at all-time high,

Josh:
Microsoft sitting at all-time high, Google, basically across the board,

Josh:
everyone is sitting at all-time highs, which I believe is high signal.

Josh:
Clearly, things are working. Clearly, a lot is being spent. Clearly,

Josh:
there is some sort of a bubble, but the end is not quite near.

Josh:
The big question that I have is like, come on, how do I get access to OpenAI

Josh:
if you don't, if you're not an accredited investor, if you can't figure out

Josh:
how to get private shares, the answer right now is just Microsoft.

Josh:
Nobody in the world owns more shares, not even OpenAI themselves, than Microsoft does.

Josh:
And Microsoft, like you said, EJS, they have access to their IP,

Josh:
they get access to a revenue share, they get access to actual equity within the company.

Josh:
And if you believe in the success of OpenAI at a scale that we do,

Josh:
which is many, many trillions of dollars of market cap, 27% of that is not to be laughed at.

Josh:
And I mean, Microsoft is a $4 trillion dollar company in the case that

Josh:
open ai makes it to that level that is another nearly

Josh:
trillion dollars in microsoft's pocket which

Josh:
is a really big deal so it is unfortunate that

Josh:
it gets diluted out through the form of having to buy the same

Josh:
company that makes microsoft office which is just like an abomination my

Josh:
personal opinion at least but um i think that is the way to kind of navigate

Josh:
this forward until we do get the eventual ipo from the open ai team like sam

Josh:
allman discussed so that's kind of how i'm thinking about navigating it is like

Josh:
i want access sam's being a little a little closed closed with that um but microsoft

Josh:
is probably your your path to success there that's.

Ejaaz:
So interesting i i read it kind of the uh in

Ejaaz:
a different way josh which is the gloves are now finally off

Ejaaz:
open ai doesn't have the constraint of having to lop as a non-profit organization

Ejaaz:
it's quite clearly a for-profit um the foundation owns equity stake in this

Ejaaz:
so i think sam will probably move quite quickly on an ipo because he needs so

Ejaaz:
much capital if he wants to get to a gigawatt factory per week, like he says.

Josh:
That's probably going to be the biggest IPO ever.

Josh:
Right. Like, I think right now, OpenAI and SpaceX are kind of neck and neck

Josh:
for most valuable private company in the world.

Josh:
And when that company goes public,

Josh:
my God, the amount of volume that is going to be traded on day one.

Ejaaz:
I'll be buying.

Josh:
Shout out to the early employees who got stock in OpenAI. My gosh,

Josh:
you are about to buy very, very, very, very luxe houses.

Josh:
But I guess that's it for OpenAI. This is a really fun topic that I've been

Josh:
dying to talk about, which is human order robotics.

Josh:
I love human order robotics. And the first one has hit the market,

Josh:
or at least so they say. say.

Josh:
We're not entirely sure where this stands. Do you want to introduce everyone

Josh:
to the OneX Neo humanoid home robot? What the hell is it? What does it do? How does it work?

Ejaaz:
Yes. So if you remember on a previous episode, actually last week,

Ejaaz:
we spoke about the new figure humanoid robot where it can enter your home,

Ejaaz:
it could do a bunch of things, but it can also do a bunch of like other things

Ejaaz:
like manufacturing jobs, service jobs and all that kind of stuff.

Ejaaz:
This is the latest humanoid robot to come out of a company called OneX.

Ejaaz:
And my first impressions of it Josh can I can I can I be honest with you can I be honest I'd

Josh:
Love for you to be nothing but honest.

Ejaaz:
It looks like a grown-up Teletubby

Ejaaz:
I don't mean that in a demeaning way. Let me skip ahead to show you like a clip of this thing.

Ejaaz:
It's kind of like in this soft, it's wearing a soft suit. It's got a very pleasant

Ejaaz:
looking face. It's got these kind of like glow up ears.

Ejaaz:
It looks like an adult alien Teletubby, but it's comforting to be around.

Ejaaz:
And in terms of like what it can do, it's this humanoid robot that can live

Ejaaz:
in your home and it can do all the things you would kind of expect a houseware robot to do.

Ejaaz:
It can clean your dishes, it can put away the groceries, it can lift things.

Ejaaz:
I think it has like a lifting capacity of 55 pounds, which is pretty crazy for

Ejaaz:
something that weighs 60 pounds.

Ejaaz:
I don't know how those mechanics work. I'm not a physicist, but that is pretty insane to see.

Ejaaz:
And this video is like a really high production thing, Josh.

Ejaaz:
I don't know how much they invested in this, but if the robot that we eventually

Ejaaz:
get in our homes in 2026, for the people that are ordering this for 500 bucks

Ejaaz:
or buying it outright for $20,000, which is a hefty price tag,

Ejaaz:
if it gets anywhere near something like this, I think it's going to completely change the game.

Ejaaz:
I would personally get something like this in my home. Josh,

Ejaaz:
have you put down the payment on this? Absolutely. What are you doing here?

Josh:
No, not at all. Again, here's the tale of two wolves where I am a techno optimist

Josh:
who is rooted in reality.

Josh:
And I have been around long enough. I have seen enough of these videos that

Josh:
look very beautiful and lovely and very welcoming to have a humanoid robot.

Josh:
But EJ, how many people have humanoid robots in their house? A total of zero.

Josh:
It just doesn't exist. No one shipped them to market. A few things that are

Josh:
important to know about this robot. It is, like you mentioned, $20,000 or $500 a month.

Josh:
And it does the following. It is able to do basic tests like laundry,

Josh:
possibly the dishes, possibly vacuuming.

Josh:
We're not entirely sure. And the problem with that is that if it can't do the

Josh:
task, you have to use this thing. I believe they call it expert mode.

Josh:
Now, expert mode is the giant red flag waving in the sky for me because expert

Josh:
mode is the highest signal that this is not ready to enter the market.

Josh:
Expert mode means if it's not able to do the thing you want,

Josh:
you can schedule a time with the Neo team and someone from the headquarters

Josh:
or wherever they're based will get into this little VR suit and manually walk

Josh:
the robot through your home to do the task for you.

Josh:
So instead of having a maid come to your house, you get some tech engineer,

Josh:
put on some goggles, and he is walking through your personal space doing the

Josh:
task that you want to do, that you've scheduled ahead of time in order to make this happen.

Josh:
And I believe that is what part of that monthly $500 a month thing is,

Josh:
is you're actually, you're paying hours of labor for humans to do the emulated

Josh:
version inside of this humanoid robot.

Josh:
So that to me is a really big red flag. The second red flag that I want to serve

Josh:
before I'll pass back to you, AJ, is the fact that this is a pre-order.

Josh:
You're not buying a robot. You are buying the rights to a future robot.

Josh:
And there is no guarantees that this robot will ever exist at scale,

Josh:
nor will it exist to the extent that it's shown in this video.

Josh:
And it's one of those things, and we've seen this with It's like,

Josh:
show me, don't tell me. And I'm seeing a lot of these really lovely demos.

Josh:
But until this thing is actually produced and until this thing gets shipped

Josh:
and until it arrives at people's houses, I am going to be sitting here a little

Josh:
skeptical because a lot of the companies like...

Josh:
I'll use Tesla as an example. They have a proven track record of building really

Josh:
badass manufacturing, hardcore engineering stuff.

Josh:
These startups don't really have any track record of manufacturing hard things.

Josh:
And a humanoid robot is an incredibly difficult thing to manufacture.

Josh:
So when they say pre-orders and delivery in 2026, well, I assume the best case

Josh:
is like December 31st, 2026.

Josh:
I would be shocked if they deliver these at scale before that.

Josh:
But I'm wondering if you have if you have a different take on that.

Ejaaz:
Sadly, no, I am not going to pay the equivalent

Ejaaz:
of half a month's rent uh well

Ejaaz:
maybe not in new york but some in some other state um to

Ejaaz:
get some third party that is wearing a

Ejaaz:
metamorph suit and acting like a shitty uh version

Ejaaz:
of avatar um the movie to navigate my robot and clean my clothes i would rather

Ejaaz:
spend that money to get some actual house help to to come in and help me out

Ejaaz:
with all the things that we're seeing on this video so far okay i have one simple

Ejaaz:
rule if you are going to advertise a next generation humanoid robot that is autonomous,

Ejaaz:
it should be autonomous.

Ejaaz:
And don't sell me something that it needs to be teleoperated.

Ejaaz:
It makes sense in the case of something like self-driving cars.

Ejaaz:
Waymo, I know, has a tele operation thing. That makes sense because there's

Ejaaz:
a lot of safety and stuff involved.

Ejaaz:
But for something that is consumer-friendly, for something that is meant to

Ejaaz:
make my life a hell of a lot easier in my most private space ever at home,

Ejaaz:
it should be fully autonomous.

Ejaaz:
And let alone the home is like the most private place, right, Josh?

Ejaaz:
Like I have all my valuables here. I don't want some dude in a third world country,

Ejaaz:
sorry, navigating around my house and picking stuff up and putting it down. What if they break it?

Ejaaz:
What if they do something wrong? Who's liable for that? Do I get insurance with this thing?

Ejaaz:
I have no idea. And then tacking on a $20,000 price tag to buy this thing outright.

Ejaaz:
If you are buying this outright for $20,000, I'm going to go ahead and say that

Ejaaz:
you are kind of like an idiot at that extent.

Ejaaz:
Like, I do not advise doing this.

Ejaaz:
And then the second point you made, Josh, I think is the more prescient point, which is,

Ejaaz:
this thing hasn't been built yet. This hasn't been produced at scale.

Ejaaz:
This thing isn't going to come into your home. It's not even guaranteed to come

Ejaaz:
into your home until like sometime in 2026.

Ejaaz:
By that time, you're going to have other robot companies like Unitree,

Ejaaz:
like Figure, come out with their actual robot, which is being built and scaled.

Ejaaz:
I have no idea where 1X is as a manufacturing company.

Ejaaz:
You've mentioned several times actually on our show, Josh, that one of the bullish

Ejaaz:
cases on Tesla's Optimus robot is the fact that Elon is such a manufacturing nerd.

Ejaaz:
He's so good at scaling. And I just don't see this or want to trust this with a robot startup.

Josh:
Yeah, I don't want to call people dumb for spending $20,000 because if I had

Josh:
a disposable $20,000, I would certainly be an early adopter.

Josh:
Maybe we can refer to that.

Josh:
One of the weird edge case questions that I have is like, okay,

Josh:
you pay $500 a month, then what? Like, what if I don't want it anymore?

Josh:
Is there like a repo man that comes? Does the robot walk out of my house?

Josh:
How does that work? The teleoperation thing, it's a serious problem.

Josh:
Um, granted you can schedule it, but I imagine myself like, Oh,

Josh:
you walk out of the shower and here is like some, some dude from like wherever he's from.

Josh:
He's just like, like, hi, I'm just cleaning your windows.

Josh:
It's this really weird, like intimate distraction.

Josh:
Um, and I think the open-endedness of that expert mode relative to the set amounts

Josh:
of chores that the robot can do leaves a lot to be desired or just a lot of

Josh:
unknowns where if I do spend all this money, I don't actually know what it's capable of doing.

Josh:
They say it could do a few things, but there's a lot of edge cases.

Josh:
Everyone's houses are different.

Josh:
Just a little uncertain on this robot. But again, happy people pushing this

Josh:
forward. I think this is great progress. I love the vision.

Josh:
If the vision in the video becomes a reality, that is a life that I really am

Josh:
excited about. That is a reality that is awesome.

Josh:
So like shout out to the One X team for trying. They're pushing the ball forward.

Josh:
I am not going to knock it too hard because I just admire their effort in making

Josh:
this a reality. And like everything else, we'll see.

Josh:
Ship the first robot. Let's see how it performs in homes.

Josh:
Let's we'll see how it goes but this is,

Josh:
I guess that's it for the robot stuff. Now we get into the cyberspace,

Josh:
the world of Grok. Oh, hell yeah.

Josh:
And Grokopedia has launched this week, EJ. So why is this a big deal?

Ejaaz:
This is a huge deal for me because I grew up on Wikipedia and I used it to help

Ejaaz:
me research and write a bunch of essays at high school and at college.

Ejaaz:
I still used it up until a few days ago where I would like help me clarify something

Ejaaz:
about like learning about some archaic thing, which I wouldn't be able to find

Ejaaz:
anywhere. It is the internet's resource knowledge.

Ejaaz:
Millions of people use it every single day.

Ejaaz:
But there's one issue, which is I don't know whether this source of truth is actually the truth.

Ejaaz:
And it's been something that we've been increasingly faced in society as things

Ejaaz:
like social media become enveloped around the world, like everyone's making

Ejaaz:
TikToks, everyone's learning their news from TikTok, from tweets.

Ejaaz:
And so it becomes really murky in terms of like figuring out what that truth is.

Ejaaz:
So Elon came out a few months ago, and it's

Ejaaz:
crazy to say that this happened a few months ago and he said I think

Ejaaz:
AI will be the best source of truth and so

Ejaaz:
what I'm going to do as part of building out Grok which is xai's

Ejaaz:
flagship AI model is create an AI

Ejaaz:
version of Wikipedia so he built that and he probably aptly called it Grokipedia

Ejaaz:
so what we're seeing in front of us right now is a demo of Grokipedia looks

Ejaaz:
like a simple chat shewiti prompt bar except that you can search for everything

Ejaaz:
and anything that you typically would in Wikipedia.

Ejaaz:
And when you do so, you get this really neat little concise summary and intro

Ejaaz:
on whatever topic, one we're seeing on the screen is the Tesla Cybertruck.

Ejaaz:
And then it goes on to kind of dig into its early life, similar that you'd see

Ejaaz:
on Wikipedia, how it was originated, and its site sources, Josh,

Ejaaz:
throughout the entire thing.

Ejaaz:
That to me is the most important part because typically in Wikipedia,

Ejaaz:
they do this thing which is kind of hidden behind closed doors.

Ejaaz:
Where they restrict the number of sources you can use as legitimate sources for your articles.

Ejaaz:
And if you look at that list, and if you compare it to the black list,

Ejaaz:
which is the very, very long list of sources which you can't quote,

Ejaaz:
it starts limiting what can be factual and what can be opinionated.

Ejaaz:
And it starts skewing a lot of people's opinions as to what is the truth or what is not.

Ejaaz:
Grok, Grok, Grokpedia and Grok on the other hand is completely unbiased.

Ejaaz:
It pulls sources from anywhere and everywhere and it does its own analysis to

Ejaaz:
vindicate whether the source is legit or whether it's not.

Ejaaz:
It does this in real time and it processes hundreds of millions of articles,

Ejaaz:
sources, primary sources, secondary resources every single day.

Ejaaz:
So I'm super excited about this because I'm, it's going to be my new research

Ejaaz:
tool going forwards in terms of fact checking.

Josh:
The purpose of Grok is to seek truth. That's kind of their, their end goal.

Josh:
That's their stated goal. The same way that a lot of these other companies like

Josh:
OpenAI was to have open source AI.

Josh:
Grok's is just to seek truth. And I think with Grok5, they're really making

Josh:
an attempt to lean into that because a lot of these traditional models are trained

Josh:
on the data of the internet, which is highly opinionated and highly biased.

Josh:
And what the Grok team, the XAI team in particular is doing is they're figuring

Josh:
out ways to filter through the noise and find as close to source truth as they can.

Josh:
And we've kind of seen this work with on the X platform with community notes,

Josh:
how generally speaking, they are the closest thing we have to source truth because

Josh:
it takes all these opposing opinions and kind of aggregates them and comes to a conclusion.

Josh:
Grokipedia is showing us community notes at scale. And it's kind of,

Josh:
it's the training set that is going to be used on the next Grok model,

Josh:
which is Grok5, but they're kind of offering it to the public as a public good.

Josh:
And not only is it a public good, it's an interactive public good.

Josh:
So if you go to Grokipedia, you can actually suggest a new page to be generated

Josh:
because they're all AI generated.

Josh:
And Grok will take the liberty on itself to actually filter your request and

Josh:
see if it's worthy or if it's not.

Josh:
So if Grokipedia deems your request worthy enough, it will actually go and do

Josh:
all the work in order to generate a new Wikipedia page or a new Grokipedia page.

Josh:
And I think that kind of collaborative nature is fun, not only for Grok to get

Josh:
better training data, but for the public to kind of get their own way.

Josh:
And what's funny, Ejaz, is I've seen a lot of larger influencers on X posting

Josh:
their Grokipedia page with a thank you letter, because for so long their public

Josh:
perception has been skewed in a way that wasn't necessarily true.

Josh:
And Grokipedia allows that to change, where now there is a source of truth about the person.

Josh:
And when you see slander about someone online, you can check,

Josh:
you can reference check this and it at least is trying its best to be truthful.

Josh:
So that to me is why Grokopedia is, is this exciting new, important revolution

Josh:
in technology that we have as a public good. Thank you to the X team. Yeah.

Ejaaz:
Well, Josh, one of those people that posted a thank you about Grokipedia was

Ejaaz:
the founder of Wikipedia himself, Larry Sanger, one of the founders of Wikipedia.

Ejaaz:
And he goes in this tweet, OK, I finished reading my first long article about

Ejaaz:
Grokipedia, the one titled Larry Sanger. That's him. That's his name.

Ejaaz:
And he goes on to describe that for a version one for an AI based Wikipedia,

Ejaaz:
it's actually really good. and it got a lot of things correct.

Ejaaz:
Most importantly, the major things, which are the most controversial things about his biography.

Ejaaz:
And he goes on citing a few examples.

Ejaaz:
He does have a few criticisms, the one being that it gets a few minor mistakes

Ejaaz:
that kind of roll in to become a big problem throughout the article.

Ejaaz:
But again, he says, hats off to you, Elon, at the end.

Ejaaz:
For everyone, this is amazing. I'm looking forward to seeing 1.0 and 2.0 going forwards.

Ejaaz:
I think what a lot of people ended up doing when this product released,

Ejaaz:
Josh, was to test a few controversial topics.

Ejaaz:
Now, I don't want us to be politically affiliated at all on this podcast,

Ejaaz:
but just to give a few examples, there was a side-by-side comparison of RFK

Ejaaz:
Jr., which is a big political figure in the US.

Ejaaz:
And you notice that one is very explicitly unbiased and less opinionated versus

Ejaaz:
the other, Grok being the more unbiased version.

Ejaaz:
You've got a side-by-side comparison of Donald Trump, and we had a kind of

Ejaaz:
Unbiased adjudicator here in this, Josh, in this experiment where they gave Gemini 2.5.

Ejaaz:
I don't know why Gemini 2.5 is the unbiased AI model of choice, but apparently it is.

Ejaaz:
And it ended up deciding that Grok was in fact the more unbiased model.

Ejaaz:
But there's also a bunch of really cool features that you can do in this as well, Josh.

Ejaaz:
You mentioned that you can like submit to Grok an article that you want to get

Ejaaz:
generated and have it instantly done.

Ejaaz:
You can also fix mistakes in Grok as well. You can kind of highlight a request

Ejaaz:
or highlight a thing that you think is wrong, submit it to Grok,

Ejaaz:
and it analyzes it in the back end.

Ejaaz:
The coolest part about this is you're not reliant on a bunch of

Ejaaz:
specific moderators, human moderators that go to bed at night,

Ejaaz:
that are awake at different times to get back to you.

Ejaaz:
This is just done by an AI all in real time.

Ejaaz:
If there's something that you don't understand, you can also just highlight

Ejaaz:
it similar to how you would do on your iPhone and click like search and it brings

Ejaaz:
you the Grokipedia page of that thing.

Ejaaz:
So overall, I think this is a net improvement in what Wikipedia was.

Ejaaz:
Do I think it's the best thing?

Ejaaz:
No, but I think it's going to get a lot better over time. And I'm super excited

Ejaaz:
about this. This thing is open source. Anyone can access it.

Josh:
Super cool. Bullish on Grokipedia. And it's actually not the only open source

Josh:
public good that we are getting in this week's episode.

Josh:
There's a second one that goes by a very weird convoluted name of X402.

Josh:
And I want to just briefly outline X402, give you like the 10 second little elevator pitch.

Josh:
You can imagine X402, this kind of, it turns the web into a giant vending machine.

Josh:
So you just like picture the internet as a vending machine.

Josh:
You can walk up to it and you could try to like grab something off of the shelf,

Josh:
whether it be a file or a video or a song.

Josh:
And if it costs money, the website will say, 402, pay this tiny amount.

Josh:
And you could pay it instantly. It's a very tiny amount. Like we're talking fractions of pennies.

Josh:
You could pay instantly using crypto stable coins like USDC.

Josh:
And then boom, you get the thing. And the amazing perk of this is you don't

Josh:
need an account. You don't need a password.

Josh:
You just pay for the thing you want and you walk away. Just like a vending machine.

Josh:
You want to watch a new video.

Josh:
Oh, here's like, give me 10 cents or 10%, one

Josh:
tenth of a penny and you get access to this video and you can take it off

Josh:
the wall and x402 it's just this open platform kind

Josh:
of like http in fact they use part of the http protocol for

Josh:
this um that allows the internet to implement this across

Josh:
the board so anyone who wants to integrate it

Josh:
can integrate it you can kind of imagine i think a lot of people are familiar

Josh:
with linux how it's just open source if you want to integrate you can that's

Josh:
what 402 is and it's this really awesome thing that allows ai agents in particular

Josh:
to start engaging with the internet without needing an account without needing

Josh:
a password, without needing to prove that they are humans.

Josh:
So you have this big explainer up. Do you want to add anything to that explanation?

Ejaaz:
No, I think you did a great job. What I will add is, I love the vending machine example.

Ejaaz:
But yeah, to emphasize, this is a new web standard. So you don't have to go

Ejaaz:
through a middleman like Stripe or PayPal.

Ejaaz:
This is something that you can spin up and integrate into your website or app

Ejaaz:
today, right now. And what's cool about this is it unlocks a bunch of really cool use cases.

Ejaaz:
So in the previous world, before X402, you would need to set up a PayPal account,

Ejaaz:
you would need to set up a checkout system, or enable subscriptions via your own API.

Ejaaz:
So if someone wanted to get access to your product, you would query your API,

Ejaaz:
and you could either offer them two options.

Ejaaz:
Here's all the information in the product that you want for free,

Ejaaz:
or you need to subscribe to my thing, which is kind of like,

Ejaaz:
think of like a newsletter or a news media corporation in today's world.

Ejaaz:
You've got to pay a subscription to get access to the Financial Times, for example.

Ejaaz:
Now, you can go to the same app and website and just pay per use,

Ejaaz:
which is the coolest part for me.

Ejaaz:
Like, Josh, do you know the number of times that I've gone to read an article

Ejaaz:
on tech or whatever, and I've just been paywalled?

Ejaaz:
I would love to be able to pay like 50 cents or whatever the amount is one time

Ejaaz:
and get access to it instantaneously a protocol like this allows you to do it

Ejaaz:
and any human can get access to it but the second part is something that you

Ejaaz:
mentioned josh ai agents

Ejaaz:
I'm firmly of the belief that the future way of digital commerce is not going

Ejaaz:
to be via humans or facilitated by humans.

Ejaaz:
It's all going to be done digitally through agents.

Ejaaz:
You need a standard like this, an open protocol that facilitates payments in

Ejaaz:
a matter of microseconds to exist for that world to exist.

Ejaaz:
So this is a major, major evolution.

Ejaaz:
People probably won't be as excited about this until they start using the product

Ejaaz:
themselves. They probably won't have any idea that it's happening in the back end.

Ejaaz:
But as a former and current crypto nerd, this is super cool.

Josh:
Yeah, well, here's why people should be excited about it because initially it sounds horrific.

Josh:
I'm like, wait, I don't want to pay to read an article or to watch a video.

Josh:
And that seems like a terrible, terrible, terrible user experience.

Josh:
But the alternative has actually been much worse.

Josh:
It is the advertising model that gets in the way.

Josh:
It's the subscription model that costs $30 a month just to read a couple of articles.

Josh:
And what this does is it kind of offloads a lot of the financial burden of a

Josh:
company onto like an open source platform.

Josh:
So if you don't want to, if you wanted to go read that article,

Josh:
EJ, you wouldn't need to pay $20 a month to the New York Times.

Josh:
You could just pay a couple cents for that specific article and get a chance

Josh:
to get the content that you want and move on with it.

Josh:
And I imagine that the net of this probably equals out to be lesser.

Josh:
Than what it would be in the traditional sense of things. So that hurts a lot

Josh:
of traditional companies where if you are making a killing off of $20 a month

Josh:
for people to read five articles, this is probably going to be a little scary.

Josh:
But for the rest of the open internet that wants to lean into this,

Josh:
that wants to have the AI agents do things on our behalf, if I could give my

Josh:
agent a wallet with $100 in it and say, here's your budget for the next couple

Josh:
of months, go get me all of the information you need,

Josh:
track down all the sources you need to aggregate that for me,

Josh:
that is like a huge, huge unlock.

Josh:
And most importantly, you just don't need an account or anything.

Josh:
It just lowers the friction to use the internet. So this, by all means, great progress.

Josh:
Big fan of X402 and just excited to see what comes from it. Normally,

Josh:
when we get these protocols, the amount of innovation that happens as a second

Josh:
order effect of it is just massive.

Josh:
So this has a real chance at really shaping the way the internet looks and how

Josh:
we engage with it over the next couple of years.

Ejaaz:
Okay, going on to our final topic and arguably the most controversial on the docket this week.

Ejaaz:
We want to put data centers out in space. This is something we mentioned last

Ejaaz:
week where a company called StarCloud is planning on building an AI compute

Ejaaz:
data center and launching it into space.

Ejaaz:
Apparently, this is going to make it a hell of a lot more efficient.

Ejaaz:
Apparently, beaming compute down onto Earth is way more environmentally friendly

Ejaaz:
because it's out in space.

Ejaaz:
There's nothing around it. It can just emanate heat, right?

Ejaaz:
But Josh, I know you have a lot of strong opinions on this.

Ejaaz:
I have this tweet lined up to give an update as to what exactly they're doing

Ejaaz:
and how they're achieving it.

Ejaaz:
And I have to say, and by the way, this tweet thread was produced by an AI model,

Ejaaz:
Perplexity, so shout out to them.

Ejaaz:
They give a very compelling case, Josh. There's a few things.

Ejaaz:
They talk about the fact that these satellites are probably,

Ejaaz:
this hardware is probably not going to be as heavy as people are claiming it to be.

Ejaaz:
So it actually makes it kind of efficient or cost worthy enough to launch some

Ejaaz:
of these things in space.

Ejaaz:
It's going to be the first ever AI model that is going to be launched and trained

Ejaaz:
and fine-tuned out in space. That's another one.

Ejaaz:
And also they talk about the biggest criticism that they've faced,

Ejaaz:
which is around how these data centers in space are gonna emanate heat.

Ejaaz:
There is no way to do that in space. Space is a vacuum.

Ejaaz:
And they talk about this neat little convection layer that they're gonna like

Ejaaz:
kind of film the entire or cover the entire data center with.

Ejaaz:
I don't know if that's true. That's kind of like the theory around it.

Ejaaz:
But most importantly, the economics are pretty insane.

Ejaaz:
On Earth, they claim that it's gonna cost you around $167 million to set up

Ejaaz:
the same kind of thing that they're trying to do in space.

Ejaaz:
But in orbit, it's only going to cost them $8.2 million.

Ejaaz:
Josh, to any kind of businessman looking at these figures, that is an investable

Ejaaz:
worthy company. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Josh:
This is outrageous. I can't believe we're talking about this.

Josh:
See, this is proof that you can't really trust AI agents, really.

Josh:
So the cost structure here is pretty outrageous. So like $167 million versus $8.2 million.

Josh:
Clearly, there's something wrong there because the cost per kilogram to orbit

Josh:
at the moment is $2,000 to $10,000 per kilogram.

Josh:
Five or 40 megawatts is an astronomical amount of infrastructure required,

Josh:
particularly because in order to cool a five megawatt data center in space,

Josh:
because there is no atmosphere,

Josh:
it requires 16 square kilometers of radiators and heat dissipation.

Josh:
And if you want a 40 megawatt data center up there, that is a very gigantic

Josh:
piece of space junk that is not really proven in technology.

Josh:
There's a lot of things like shielding that is really difficult because there

Josh:
is a lot more solar flare energy. If a single bit gets flipped in any of these

Josh:
training runs, it's very difficult to recover.

Josh:
You have to do the whole thing over again. So radiation is a problem.

Josh:
The cooling is a problem. The cost, I think they must be assuming that the cost

Josh:
per kilogram to orbit is like starship final form when it gets down to like

Josh:
10 to 30 kilograms per orbit.

Josh:
The reality is it costs several orders of magnitude more to do that today.

Josh:
And what this isn't taking into account either is the decreasing cost of electricity over time.

Josh:
Since the early 1900s industrial era in the United States, we have not really

Josh:
needed to produce that much more energy.

Josh:
Like our energy has been kind of gradual, but it's never gone up the exponential

Josh:
curve in the same way technology did.

Josh:
We are very much at the exponential curve right now where that is changing.

Josh:
And I think to assume that energy costs are going to remain this high is fairly

Josh:
outrageous because clearly the goal is to get energy costs as close to zero as possible.

Josh:
There is no change to this trend. And this whole thing kind of seems outrageous.

Josh:
Now, granted, I love the idea that they are experimenting, that they want to

Josh:
try to make these fun outer space orbits. But it just seems kind of hand-wavy.

Josh:
One of their bragging points is, oh, this is 100 times more compute power than

Josh:
the largest GPU that's ever been in space.

Josh:
And that's because we don't ship GPUs to space. Like this is just the first

Josh:
big one we've ever shipped. And it's one of them.

Josh:
And real data centers now need millions of these coherently operating together.

Josh:
So to me, it's like, it's a fun science experiment, but I wouldn't take this

Josh:
very seriously because there are lots of long time scales and technology breakthroughs

Josh:
required in order to make that number realistic.

Ejaaz:
All right. Okay. Listen, Josh, all very valid points, but I have one more comment to make.

Ejaaz:
You criticize the fact that this company is suggesting to build out like, what is it?

Ejaaz:
A 14 kilometer satellite or data infrastructure to actually build it.

Josh:
That's just the physics of what it takes to cool it.

Ejaaz:
Right. Okay. To cool this, right? Isn't the whole point of space that there's a lot of space?

Ejaaz:
Why can't they just launch whatever the hell they want? We have infinite space

Ejaaz:
in this thing? Why can't they just do that?

Josh:
It turns out like space isn't super infinite and particularly on low earth orbit.

Josh:
I imagine there's going to be a large battle for low earth orbit.

Josh:
Why low earth orbit? Well, it is low earth. It's close to earth.

Josh:
And because of a thing called latency, we want these things,

Josh:
we want to be able to communicate with these things faster.

Josh:
And unfortunately, the speed of light does have a cap and things cannot,

Josh:
we haven't figured out how to make things travel any faster than the speed of light.

Josh:
So if your data center is further away, it takes much longer to communicate

Josh:
back with Earth. And that becomes a problem.

Josh:
What I prefer is instead of putting these like giant 16 square kilometer like

Josh:
pieces of things into this precious space, space in space, well,

Josh:
wouldn't it be cool to just throw like a lot more of these Starlink V3 satellites

Josh:
down there so they can beam direct to cell service back to us?

Josh:
I think there's a lot more practical utility of that low Earth orbit versus

Josh:
throwing these like gigantic things that require a lot of space.

Josh:
You just, if you saw, we talked about the SpaceX launch last week.

Josh:
Those satellites are very small. They don't take up a lot of space,

Josh:
but they are very high impact.

Josh:
These on the other hand are gigantic. And yeah, it doesn't strike me as very

Josh:
exciting as a lucrative way of using our limited real estate up there.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, I appreciate the boldness of the idea. This team did come out of Y Combinator,

Ejaaz:
so I'm presuming that it is quite fitting to the batch and cohort that they're graduating from.

Ejaaz:
Y Combinator always launches pretty loony ideas, which end up sometimes becoming world-changing.

Ejaaz:
But we are yet to see whether StarCloud will prove their thesis of launching

Ejaaz:
Jensen Huang's NVIDIA GPUs into space.

Ejaaz:
Speaking of Jensen Huang, $5 trillion market cap. It is an absolute crazy week.

Ejaaz:
It is earnings week this week, guys. Stock market is at all-time highs.

Ejaaz:
We mentioned Microsoft and Apple. Apple, super randomly, coming out of nowhere.

Ejaaz:
I thought AI had beholden them. I thought they had completely skipped the entire phase.

Ejaaz:
Somehow they surpassed a $4 trillion market cap. Maybe they're underpriced.

Ejaaz:
We'll talk about more of that potentially next week.

Ejaaz:
But that is all that we have on our docket today.

Ejaaz:
I just want to say from me personally, thank you so much for the support all

Ejaaz:
of you guys have shown us. So far, we had like one of our most viewed videos

Ejaaz:
ever last week. And we're having an amazing week this time.

Ejaaz:
All the comments and feedback that you guys are giving, all the likes,

Ejaaz:
all the subscriptions, all the ratings that you're giving us on RSS,

Ejaaz:
Spotify, Apple Music, wherever you're listening to this is hugely, hugely appreciated.

Ejaaz:
If you haven't done any of that already, that's okay.

Ejaaz:
Please do it now. It takes a few seconds.

Ejaaz:
And Josh, do you have anything else that you want to share?

Josh:
Oh, I have to remind you, we've had a big week in the world of YouTube,

Josh:
which is awesome. There's been a lot of new people joining and subscribing.

Josh:
Just a reminder that there is an audio version of this available on Spotify

Josh:
where you can also watch the video as well as just audio only on RSS feeds,

Josh:
basically anywhere where you get podcasts. Spotify is my favorite way to watch the show.

Josh:
Sometimes I'll rewatch our episodes and I'll go on my Spotify and it's nice

Josh:
because it's a pocket player that does audio, but it also has video built right in.

Josh:
So if I'm on the treadmill and I want to watch, I could just watch it

Josh:
on my phone or if I just like lock my phone because unless you

Josh:
have youtube premium you can't lock your phone and still listen it still

Josh:
plays in the background so spotify is my preferred way of watching but yeah just thank

Josh:
you all so much for the support and for sharing with your friends and just being

Josh:
here for every episode as we travel along the journey and reach all-time highs

Josh:
across the board particularly in stocks this week so big earnings season coming

Josh:
up i'm sure we'll get into some of that next week but that's been another great

Josh:
week on limitless and thank you all for watching as always we'll see you guys next week.