Limitless Podcast

Ejaaz:
Welcome back to the Limitless AI Roundup. This week, NVIDIA is well on its way

Ejaaz:
to becoming a $10 trillion company.

Ejaaz:
Jensen Huang announced a $2 billion investment in XAI, putting a massive smile on Elon Musk's face.

Ejaaz:
But Sam Altman's been pretty busy as well. He announced 800 million total weekly

Ejaaz:
users on ChatGPT, which is a 300 million jump from last update,

Ejaaz:
which is absolutely insane.

Ejaaz:
And Apple might be scrapping their Vision Pro after all this effort, Josh.

Ejaaz:
Lots to cover this week and lots to get into, starting with this breaking news from AMD.

Ejaaz:
AMD, for those of you who haven't heard of it, is pretty much NVIDIA's main competitor.

Ejaaz:
They create a bunch of important chips, GPUs, and infrastructure needed to train

Ejaaz:
and inference new AI models.

Ejaaz:
And in this announcement, they secured a partnership with OpenAI of a total

Ejaaz:
of six gigawatts over multiple years.

Ejaaz:
I think this specific is five years in total. But the most important fact about

Ejaaz:
this, in my opinion, is the 10% equity stake that they're offering Sam Altman,

Ejaaz:
Josh. Did you hear about this?

Ejaaz:
They're basically offering up a stake for OpenAI in their own company.

Josh:
Yeah, this is a pretty outrageous deal. Before we get into the deal,

Josh:
can we just take a moment to look at the chart if you don't mind pulling that up?

Josh:
Because the weekly chart of AMD is outrageous. And I think it's very reflective

Josh:
of the size and scale of this deal. Yeah.

Josh:
So on the day the news broke, I think the stock was up almost 40%.

Josh:
It might have closed like around plus 30% or something outrageous,

Josh:
but the market loves this.

Josh:
And I think the reason why is because this is a big bet and a vertical integration of technology.

Josh:
Like open ai needs chips amd needs someone to sell their

Josh:
chips too because nvidia is like kind of crushing everyone and the

Josh:
deal you can kind of view it in two separate ways so amd first

Josh:
they sell open ai a mountain of chips open ai

Josh:
promises to buy a gigantic amount of amd special ai chips they're called the

Josh:
instinct gpus i think which is different from uh nvidia's blackwell um they'll

Josh:
start with enough chips to use one gigawatt of power in 2026 so that's like

Josh:
the electricity needed to light up a whole build a whole city like seattle like

Josh:
a gigawatt is huge no one's reached it before, but they're going to try to do that in 2026.

Josh:
Over time, it'll grow to six gigawatts of total energy, which is like this like

Josh:
crazy outrageous thing.

Josh:
So like imagine you build a robot army for like a school project,

Josh:
you need 100,000 Lego bricks.

Josh:
Instead of buying a few at a time, you make a deal with the Lego store to get

Josh:
millions over five years. That's kind of how you could think of this deal with them.

Josh:
And then on the back end of the deal, OpenAI gets a chance to own part of AMD.

Josh:
So as part of the deal, AMD gave OpenAI a warrant, which is kind of like a special

Josh:
ticket to buy up to 10% of AMD's company super cheap.

Josh:
Think like a penny per share. But OpenEye only gets this if they hit the goals,

Josh:
like actually buying and using all those chips without any problems.

Josh:
So like one example I was explaining to my friend is that if you're trading

Josh:
Pokemon cards, you give them, you give your friend like a bunch of rare cards now.

Josh:
And in return, they promise if your collection grows big enough,

Josh:
you get to own half of their card box for free. So it's kind of a win-win.

Josh:
You get what you need now in hopes of earning a lot of revenue down the line.

Josh:
And that's kind of how you could think of this deal is it's it's a bet on both

Josh:
of their futures but aligned to the same outcomes so all this only plays out in the case that

Josh:
OpenAI is able to make these data centers, and then AMD is actually able to

Josh:
give the GPUs required to make these data centers, which is a big win-win, and the market loved it.

Josh:
I mean, this chart is very reflective of how impressive people think this deal is.

Josh:
There's a lot of talk about this kind of circle of revenue happening,

Josh:
where OpenAI is paying AMD, AMD is lending stuff to OpenAI, but overall,

Josh:
the market seems to like it. Ejaz, did you have any takeaways from this?

Ejaaz:
Well, that's kind of what I want to get into. You can frame it as one way,

Ejaaz:
as a win-win, as you said, but it could also be framed as kind of like a house

Ejaaz:
of cards that might come crumbling down at any point.

Ejaaz:
As you said, OpenAI is promising to pay for these things, but they don't actually

Ejaaz:
have the trillions of dollars needed to pay for these GPUs just yet.

Ejaaz:
And in AMD's position, they don't have the chips or the infrastructure ready

Ejaaz:
to go either, right? So it's kind of like a, hey, I owe you and we'll promise to build this out.

Ejaaz:
And actually, the 10% equity stake that was offered to Sam Altman was to sweeten

Ejaaz:
the deal in any case, saying like, listen, I know that NVIDIA is the big dog,

Ejaaz:
but we can deliver on this.

Ejaaz:
And we're promising you in good faith that you can buy 10% of our company at

Ejaaz:
a given price if you just trust us and we deliver on it.

Ejaaz:
And there'll be milestones that rank this up, right? I want to dig into the

Ejaaz:
math very quickly because the margins are, as you can imagine, pretty nuts.

Ejaaz:
So the total number of units that are promised for 6 gigawatts is 5 million

Ejaaz:
units of AMD processors.

Ejaaz:
And the price per GPU is around 20 grand.

Ejaaz:
So total revenue for AMD in this would be around $100 billion.

Ejaaz:
That's a big number. And I know OpenAI doesn't have that money just yet, right?

Ejaaz:
And the gross profit that AMD is taking from this is 50%. That's $50 billion.

Ejaaz:
But then someone is saying, well, okay, but they're giving 10% of the company,

Ejaaz:
but then 10% of AMD's equity at Friday's close, which is, I think,

Ejaaz:
before this announcement was officially

Ejaaz:
made, or maybe on the day of this announcement, was $21 billion.

Ejaaz:
So you're assuming that if you can buy in at a $21 billion valuation,

Ejaaz:
by the time that these gigawatts are served to OpenAI, they'll probably be worth a marginal amount more.

Ejaaz:
So really, AMD spent $21 billion to make $50 billion in the immediate terms,

Ejaaz:
which is a pretty good deal.

Ejaaz:
One other thing that I thought of is

Ejaaz:
This is an unexpected move from OpenAI and Sam Altman specifically,

Ejaaz:
because he's been in really good cahoots with Jensen Huang and NVIDIA.

Ejaaz:
And Jensen's been kind of known to rule the roost, and you don't want to ruffle feathers with him.

Ejaaz:
And this is a direct violation of that. In fact, Josh, I don't know if you saw

Ejaaz:
this, but he had some supposed commentary, which is detailed in this tweet,

Ejaaz:
where he goes, I saw the deal. It's unique and surprising.

Ejaaz:
Considering they were so excited about their next generation product,

Ejaaz:
I'm surprised they would give away 10% of the company before they even built

Ejaaz:
it. Anyway, it's clever, I guess.

Ejaaz:
So I don't know directly where that quote is taken from, but you can just tell

Ejaaz:
that Jensen is kind of like sitting on top of his throne and he's watching what's

Ejaaz:
happening and he's making sure that the kids behave.

Ejaaz:
And one final point is, I saw a tweet going around, I couldn't find it,

Ejaaz:
which was apparently taken from a statement from OpenAI basically saying,

Ejaaz:
we're entering this partnership with AMD, but this by no means violates our

Ejaaz:
partnership with NVIDIA, who we trust and we love so much.

Ejaaz:
And we're looking forward to taking our partnership with NVIDIA further in the

Ejaaz:
future. He actually mentioned NVIDIA more than he mentioned AMD,

Ejaaz:
which is what the announcement was about.

Ejaaz:
So there's this cautious treading around, okay, whose GPUs are we going to take,

Ejaaz:
which is a strategy which Sam has been employing not just in the GPU world,

Ejaaz:
but with compute in general.

Ejaaz:
Remember, he had an over-reliance on Microsoft less than a year ago,

Ejaaz:
and now he's kind of like spread that to Oracle and a number of other providers.

Ejaaz:
So just an interesting trend to note.

Josh:
Yeah, I love this quote from Jensen that we have on the screen.

Josh:
He's just so hyper-competitive. And then I listened to a lot of the things that he said.

Josh:
Uh, he just had a conversation on CNBC earlier this morning, I think.

Josh:
And it was about the Nvidia deal and about the, the nature of the deals.

Josh:
And he publicly makes it seem very positive.

Josh:
Some, when he talks about these companies, he is, everybody's great.

Josh:
He always makes time to give credit to all of the amazing companies, all the amazing CEOs.

Josh:
The reality is, is like, he has a very hardcore operator. He is hyper competitive.

Josh:
And when he sees, sees deals like this, I mean, he, he's right in the sense

Josh:
that, well, AMD gave away 10% of the company, like Nvidia ships are badass.

Josh:
We don't have to give away anything. And I think that kind of leads us into the next deal.

Josh:
And I mean, Ejaz, you started the show with a $10 trillion valuation for Nvidia.

Josh:
So please back us into how we get there. Like they had one big deal this week, right?

Josh:
Which probably plays a large role in that valuation between XAI. Please explain.

Ejaaz:
So the headline here is Nvidia is

Ejaaz:
to take up to $2 billion worth of equity stake

Ejaaz:
in Elon Musk's xai that's elon

Ejaaz:
musk's ai model company right they they own

Ejaaz:
twitter they own the infamous scruc model which is leading all benchmarks and

Ejaaz:
so this was a pretty major and unexpected announcement um now that we've just

Ejaaz:
spoken about the amd deal josh i do wonder if jensen got kind of pissed and

Ejaaz:
was like well screw you sam i'm gonna remind you that i don't have an overreliance

Ejaaz:
or a oath sworn to open ai on.

Josh:
The conversation that he had with cnbc this morning he made a very explicit

Josh:
point to say um i'm very excited to participate in all of elon's companies i

Josh:
intend on continuing to participate yeah my only regret is that i didn't spend

Josh:
more that i didn't invest more in these amazing companies so it is very clear

Josh:
this is like this is this is war we are fighting

Ejaaz:
I i mean what what's interesting is uh this deal promises elon musk and xai

Ejaaz:
a heck ton of nvidia gpus and these gpus are going to be specifically used for

Ejaaz:
elon musk's major data center called Colossus 2, which we've spoken about on this show before.

Ejaaz:
And if you remember at the time where Elon announced that he was going to build

Ejaaz:
Colossus 2, when he built Colossus 1, Jensen had said, this is the smartest,

Ejaaz:
and most effective man that I've ever seen build a data center.

Ejaaz:
And he had full faith speaking his positivity towards Elon at that time.

Ejaaz:
And we're seeing him kind of like lean into it. But him saying,

Ejaaz:
like, whatever Elon does, I want to be involved in.

Ejaaz:
It also gets me to kind of think that if Sam or AMD is giving away 10% stake

Ejaaz:
in their company to OpenAI, do you remember when Trump announced that the government

Ejaaz:
was taking a 10% stake in Intel, Josh?

Josh:
Do you remember? I do very well. Yeah. And then the price action afterwards.

Ejaaz:
The price action afterwards, which was the stock just surged.

Ejaaz:
But do you remember Jensen's immediate public response to that news, like on the day itself?

Josh:
I'm not sure I do. I would assume it was positive in sentiment,

Josh:
but I don't remember exactly what he said.

Ejaaz:
Oh, no. He went on official record in an interview because he was at a conference

Ejaaz:
that day and he was asked about it where he said,

Ejaaz:
if the government tries anything like that in terms of nationalizing,

Ejaaz:
and he used the word nationalizing of NVIDIA's company, if the government forces

Ejaaz:
him to give over 10%, he will sue them to high haven.

Ejaaz:
So he made it very clear at the start that NVIDIA is not for sale.

Ejaaz:
And it kind of makes Intel and now AMD look a little weak in this move.

Ejaaz:
And he's going the other way and saying, no, I'm going to take a stake in the

Ejaaz:
AI model company because we're the big dogs here.

Ejaaz:
We're top of the S&P and we're going to make it.

Ejaaz:
And do you have any thoughts before I jump into the numbers here?

Josh:
Yeah, when you're the kingmaker, you get to decide these things.

Josh:
I'm not sure Intel really had a choice.

Josh:
Like Intel's choice was to slowly bleed out or get subsidized by the government

Josh:
and become an important company.

Josh:
In a world where they were like declining in relevance um so

Josh:
it was probably a good deal for intel but for yeah

Josh:
of course nvidia would never have to deal with this they have far too much leverage and

Josh:
if they and if anyone has a problem with it well it's too

Josh:
damn bad no one else makes gpus as good as they do um so

Josh:
i found that interesting one of the other things i found most interesting about this

Josh:
deal was the actual dynamics of the deal because this

Josh:
wasn't a traditional like we're investing in you we're getting an equity swap

Josh:
it uses special purpose vehicles it uses gpus as collateral there's a lot of

Josh:
these like weird technically nuanced things about this deal that i think makes

Josh:
it unique that i would love to walk through you guys if you have any um yeah

Josh:
i guess walk us through this this detailed post here on twitter yeah

Ejaaz:
So so here's my understanding of this um nvidia didn't invest directly in xai

Ejaaz:
but they invested into an spv a special purpose uh vehicle which you know a

Ejaaz:
lot of these companies do to kind of like get around certain organizational

Ejaaz:
hierarchical structures.

Ejaaz:
And this SPV, I think in total, was raising around $20 billion.

Ejaaz:
$12.5 billion in debt, and the rest $7.5 billion in actual equity.

Ejaaz:
NVIDIA is putting the $2 billion of their investment in that $7.5 billion of equity.

Ejaaz:
So this is an equity-only thing. It's not in debt. It's going purely to XI,

Ejaaz:
which is really interesting going a layer deeper nvidia is not actually putting

Ejaaz:
this money directly into their hands it's coming in the form of gpus josh,

Ejaaz:
And so if you recognize the pattern that's happening, that's what AMD was doing

Ejaaz:
with OpenAI that we just spoke about.

Ejaaz:
So it's kind of becoming this deal, which is laid out by this tweet over here,

Ejaaz:
where he goes, I think we're watching the new financing model for GPU buildouts emerge.

Ejaaz:
The funding is tied straight to the hardware. So if a project fails,

Ejaaz:
the lenders can seize the GPUs because they hold their own value.

Ejaaz:
So in effect, NVIDIA's chips are effectively turning into their own asset class.

Ejaaz:
Isn't that insane? It's basically saying GPUs are the new gold.

Ejaaz:
Like screw your equity, screw the money or any kind of collateral that you have

Ejaaz:
or that bank lending deposit that you've taken out. I don't care.

Ejaaz:
I want your GPUs. And if you screw me over, I'm going to recall them.

Josh:
Yeah, this is amazing. It's like it feels like a gold standard,

Josh:
except for GPUs. They are these very highly coveted, highly complex things that

Josh:
are the only thing that matters in a world that is run by AGI.

Josh:
And to me, this deal is such a fun, forward-looking way of viewing the world,

Josh:
denominating value in GPUs versus dollars.

Josh:
Because, I mean, we know the dollar is kind of like, we're in this inflationary

Josh:
thing, our spending purchasing power is going down, but GPUs are the inverse of that.

Josh:
And using these GPUs as collateral is such a fun and fascinating way of structuring the deal.

Josh:
So why did xai do this well they kind

Josh:
of they need a way to get more power because

Josh:
obviously is exploding um their colossus supercomputer

Josh:
already has 100 000 gpus and this

Josh:
deal helps extend that in a huge way uh so nvidia wants to stay on that's the

Josh:
top dog of ai chips especially after that deal with open ai and amd and xai

Josh:
needs these gpus and they need more money to buy these gpus so who is the best

Josh:
person to raise all this money from well the person who's making all the the GPUs, NVIDIA.

Josh:
And if this deal works and if this

Josh:
Actually plays out as described by Jensen and Elon and the whole XAI team.

Josh:
Well, they're very quickly trending towards not only the world's first gigawatt

Josh:
cluster, but the world's first multi-gigawatt cluster with a couple of hundred

Josh:
coherent GPUs. And these things are happening very quickly.

Josh:
And it was clear based on the conversation that I heard Jensen have this morning

Josh:
that he is very bullish on the XAI team.

Josh:
And he very strongly believes that they have all the resources to

Josh:
do so and is willing to give them basically whatever they need

Josh:
in order to make it a reality because the downstream effects one are

Josh:
that um well jensen just sells a ton of

Josh:
gpus but two um the xai

Josh:
team is very much showcasing the full

Josh:
capacity of nvidia the company it's like

Josh:
if you actually have all of the

Josh:
ability to manufacture these data centers and build them quickly well

Josh:
this is how amazing their results can be if you use our product so it's

Josh:
a win-win for everyone it was a really cool deal um i think

Josh:
this is this is an exciting new paradigm where we are denominating in

Josh:
gpus and as a result just very

Josh:
bullish on nvidia man like through all this they seem to be in the best position

Josh:
they have nothing but growth there is no world in which the nvidia market cap

Josh:
does not keep going up like i i do i very much understand the 10 trillion dollar

Josh:
uh market cap like sure maybe there's some spending bubble but long-tail effects

Josh:
of this are huge this is a trend that is not changing for a very very long time i

Ejaaz:
Just want to point out this is a public service announcement for all the doomers

Ejaaz:
out there that are listening to this.

Ejaaz:
Everyone is investing in this thing. Everyone's rolling the dice.

Ejaaz:
Everyone's taking this big bet.

Ejaaz:
And you're seeing the leaders of this industry, like we have on this tweet up

Ejaaz:
here from Greg Brockman, president and co-founder of OpenAI,

Ejaaz:
saying, we're working to build

Ejaaz:
as much compute as we can as quickly as we can over the next few years.

Ejaaz:
And he goes on to make the point that I think everyone is underestimating

Ejaaz:
the demand for compute that ai will have

Ejaaz:
so instead of all the doomers uh that are saying hey we're

Ejaaz:
in a capex bubble you know agi hasn't emerged yet

Ejaaz:
um the front runners the leaders of this entire show is telling us through these

Ejaaz:
major investments in compute hardware and the deals that they're making that

Ejaaz:
compute is necessary and they're going to roll the dice betting on this industry

Ejaaz:
um and there's a wider point here josh which uh i'm wondering if you agree with, which is.

Ejaaz:
It's make or break for America at this point.

Ejaaz:
I tweeted about this yesterday because I was just kind of like thinking about

Ejaaz:
this whole like America versus China thing. And, you know, we're going to have

Ejaaz:
a robot episode coming out tomorrow.

Ejaaz:
And China's like, in my opinion, leading ahead over there. But it's like,

Ejaaz:
how does America win here?

Ejaaz:
Like they need to take these big bets. They need to perhaps take a 10% stake

Ejaaz:
for the government and kind of like bring all manufacturing on shore and ramp

Ejaaz:
up their robotics investments and push S&P to all-time highs every single week.

Ejaaz:
Because if they don't, we risk losing it all.

Ejaaz:
And I think that that is just full-on startup mode for America.

Ejaaz:
And I'm excited to see where it goes.

Josh:
I like the idea of just turning blinders to China and not really paying attention

Josh:
and just keeping the focus on us in-house.

Josh:
To back in again to your $10 trillion valuation, one of the things that I've

Josh:
just began to realize recently is the fact that basically the entire world runs on CPU architecture.

Josh:
Like everything is run on cpus it's like

Josh:
that's how we use computers that is how all the computers that

Josh:
you look at across the world run but with the advent

Josh:
of ai and most recently reinforcement learning and

Josh:
inference where much more tokens are generated or

Josh:
required to be generated in order to give a better response there are

Josh:
like these two forces at play where one while the natural flow of this ai innovation

Josh:
is leading to exponentially more tokens needed to be generated and two all those

Josh:
tokens are generated on a gpu so if you believe in the idea that ai will be

Josh:
ambient throughout all the computing in the world then you also kind of have to believe

Josh:
the entire CPU architecture of the world needs to flip over to GPUs.

Josh:
And in the world that that's true, that displaces everything with the processor inside of it.

Josh:
It is a ginormous industry, bigger than anything that we have like currently today by a long shot.

Josh:
So to say that a company like NVIDIA still has a 2 to 2.5x left in it seems

Josh:
very reasonable in that basis, where if you believe that AI is the future,

Josh:
if you believe reinforcement learning and inference training,

Ejaaz:
It kind of seems undervalued.

Josh:
It does. On a short time scale, no one has any idea what the hell is going to

Josh:
happen. But over a long period of time, this is very much a sticky trend.

Josh:
And there's one company very clearly at the forefront.

Josh:
So bullish on NVIDIA, bullish on GPUs, bullish on all these deals.

Ejaaz:
Don't forget NVIDIA started off as a gaming GPU, gaming hardware company.

Josh:
That's how we know about them. Because, dude, I'm a freaking...

Josh:
I loved gaming. I built my own custom PC.

Ejaaz:
Tell us the law. Tell us the law.

Josh:
Josh. Well, I used to. i gamed all the time and i built a custom

Josh:
pc to play games on and the thing that

Josh:
you bought was the nvidia gpus and i would

Josh:
always just buy the newest nvidia gpu and then eventually well when

Josh:
ethereum came around they started being used for for like

Josh:
ethereum mining you could buy some gpus for that and then

Josh:
eventually it kind of pivoted to back to gaming where these

Josh:
things would sell out instantly so i used to do like sneaker reselling

Josh:
and reselling bots you would try to buy the gpus to

Josh:
resell them because they were so rare and so difficult to get um and

Josh:
now it's like it's kind of leveled

Josh:
up from like the gamers to the miners to like

Josh:
the computer nerds to like the largest superpowers in the world and now everyone

Josh:
wants the gpu so listen i'm not saying actually i am saying that these nerdy

Josh:
gamers like what they're doing on the weekends you really got to pay attention

Josh:
to it because they are ahead of the trend sometimes so early that it seems indistinguishable

Josh:
from like a stupid toy, but they were very much right.

Josh:
I have had NVIDIA GPUs for well over a decade and I probably should have used

Josh:
that as signal to buy some more stock because my God, what an incredible company.

Ejaaz:
Jensen Huang is on a legendary run and the computer nerds are winning.

Ejaaz:
What a world my 13-year-old self would never believe in if I had told him this now.

Ejaaz:
Okay, so Josh, we have a few more items to cover.

Ejaaz:
Let's get through it. what one tiny item is open

Ejaaz:
ai had a pretty big week and when i say big week i i actually mean major week

Ejaaz:
and and what other week is not major for open ai recently um check out these

Ejaaz:
stats they announced 800 million weekly chat gpt users josh this was 500 million,

Ejaaz:
four months ago.

Josh:
Wait, Ejaz, I pulled some fun stats about this 800 million weekly active users number.

Josh:
So that means one in every 10 people on earth is using their product every week.

Josh:
If users were a country, it would be the third largest nation on earth behind only China and India.

Josh:
You can fill 8,000 Super Bowls every week with your audience and still have

Josh:
people waiting outside.

Josh:
And every minute, 79,000 people are using it.

Josh:
That's more than an entire football stadium logging in every

Josh:
60 seconds so this is like a outrageous

Josh:
amount of weekly active users and weekly should

Josh:
not be confused with monthly active users which i'm sure is far more where they

Josh:
they have to be gradually approaching among the largest user bases in the world

Josh:
i guess maybe behind meta i'm not even sure who else would be up in that category

Josh:
but this is a tremendously large number to do so and not that long of a time period and

Ejaaz:
I think the other major number to pay attention to here is the 4 million developers.

Ejaaz:
Now, one thing to be wary of is your product is only as good as your users say

Ejaaz:
it is, but your product only gets better as much as your developers have access

Ejaaz:
to it, as much as your developers want to build on it.

Ejaaz:
Having 4 million developers focusing on one singular product,

Ejaaz:
which has pretty much been ChatGPT up until this announcement,

Ejaaz:
which we're seeing on the screen, which is from their OpenAI Dev Day this week,

Ejaaz:
is absolutely insane and we have

Ejaaz:
an entire episode josh and i covered this immediately after the stream we were

Ejaaz:
one of the first uh brands to put out an episode on this go and check it out

Ejaaz:
it's on our youtube page spotify or wherever you listen to stuff um but one

Ejaaz:
of my favorite takeaways from

Ejaaz:
this josh was the uh apps sdk um do you remember this this is basically,

Ejaaz:
a new upgrade, which will allow you to chat with apps in your chat GPT.

Ejaaz:
And whilst we've spoken about this already, and I've given you my thoughts,

Ejaaz:
I had a really interesting conversation with my girlfriend yesterday,

Ejaaz:
which was she was like, what do you mean you could chat to apps?

Ejaaz:
And I walked her through the process.

Ejaaz:
I said, like, well, remember how we're kind of like looking at potentially new

Ejaaz:
places to move to in America or around the world?

Ejaaz:
And you know how you usually type in a prompt and you're like hey like

Ejaaz:
where do i want to live like uh tell me the top places or

Ejaaz:
neighborhoods in this city and then she's like yeah well

Ejaaz:
now you can say um what are some of

Ejaaz:
the top listings for a home to rent or buy there

Ejaaz:
and it taps into zillow and then you could say well i want to set up viewings

Ejaaz:
for these uh places i'm gonna visit there next week and they're like cool do

Ejaaz:
you want me to book a flight for you do you want me to book um the bookings

Ejaaz:
for the listings for you let me give access to your calendar and it does all

Ejaaz:
of these things for it makes your life easier.

Ejaaz:
But the thought that I had here, Josh, was this is a completely new way for

Ejaaz:
the app builders themselves to interact with this new paradigm.

Ejaaz:
What I mean by that is your app now no longer caters to humans.

Ejaaz:
It caters to these AI models. It caters to these AI agents.

Ejaaz:
And I think that that is not too dissimilar from brands going from brick and

Ejaaz:
mortar physical stores where they had to care about location.

Ejaaz:
They had to care about foot traffic. They had to care about where they position

Ejaaz:
their products when people walked in to online e-commerce, where suddenly people

Ejaaz:
had to worry about SEO and becoming number one in Google's search page and search rankings.

Ejaaz:
So in my opinion, this is like another jump. It's another jump to a different

Ejaaz:
medium, which people are figuring out in real time. And I don't think they've prepped for.

Ejaaz:
And that was just my takeaway that I had to share because i was like oh my god

Ejaaz:
like this is completely like paradigm shifting.

Josh:
Yeah they're eating the world i think we see similar dynamics between

Josh:
open ai and nvidia in the sense that they have

Josh:
what everyone wants which is one case is gpus but

Josh:
the other case is users and if you have 800 million weekly active users and

Josh:
you have an opportunity to plug in to that user flow and actually add value

Josh:
to the user experience that's a no-brainer and it is very clear that open ai

Josh:
is now just trying to bring everyone to them and serve as an aggregator to the outside world.

Josh:
And I think that's great because they're definitely the best equipped to actually do that.

Josh:
Um, so yeah, that, that was an interesting little thing this week.

Josh:
Again, for people who don't know, um, or who aren't up to date,

Josh:
we did drop the episode yesterday.

Josh:
So check it out. Do you want to talk about Sora here? Sora update number one? I see a Sam on blog post.

Ejaaz:
I would love to. So Sora update number one, but it is also officially the number

Ejaaz:
one app in the app store, Josh.

Ejaaz:
Um, so this, this week or a week ago, uh, OpenAI announced their new text to

Ejaaz:
video model, but they did it with a twist.

Ejaaz:
They also announced a brand new social media platform which is kind of like

Ejaaz:
tiktok but every single video is ai generated josh and i kind of hated on it

Ejaaz:
and i kind of rounded off the episode with maybe this might work maybe it won't

Ejaaz:
and i have to say i've ended up loving it since um i've i've created a sorry i'll have.

Josh:
You know why i've got to tell me why

Ejaaz:
Okay i'll tell you why i'll tell you why and uh i don't

Ejaaz:
know if i'm too proud to announce why but i'll say it anyway um

Ejaaz:
i like seeing myself feature in all these

Ejaaz:
random fantasies or ideas that i can come up with

Ejaaz:
but but but more so i like doing

Ejaaz:
it with my friends i can cameo uh david hoffman i can cameo you in a fun little

Ejaaz:
video if i have a fun little idea and share it with you and i i have to say

Ejaaz:
i'm not doing it with the idea of like josh look how real this is wouldn't it

Ejaaz:
be cool i'm not like sending you a hint saying like i wish we could do this

Ejaaz:
it's more like isn't this a funny meme.

Ejaaz:
Like, look at us joking around. You and I would never do this.

Ejaaz:
And so I guess that novelty hasn't worn off for me and hasn't worn off for a

Ejaaz:
heck ton of other people.

Ejaaz:
Reaching number one in the app store is no joke.

Josh:
Yeah, I think, I mean, for me, I haven't even opened up the app in like two or three days.

Josh:
So it has lost the stickiness for me. But I think I share your enthusiasm in

Josh:
the sense that, again, this is a company with 800 million active users that

Josh:
just dropped a social media application on a whim just to test things.

Josh:
And I really, I admire that about Sam and the OpenAI team as their willingness

Josh:
to experiment and to increasingly break down borders.

Josh:
I mean, the copyright thing was one of them where you can make your videos with

Josh:
like Pokemon or SpongeBob or these copyrighted characters and their willingness

Josh:
to kind of bend the rules a little bit in terms of shipping faster and innovating faster.

Josh:
I really admire. So I expect this to be a directional trend with OpenAI where

Josh:
we see a lot of new technology applications,

Josh:
product just being launched and just seeing which ones stick which ones don't

Josh:
but using them as these platforms to kind of complete the development circle

Josh:
where new technology pair it with a product release the product and just see

Josh:
what happens and Sora overwhelming success I mean number one in the app store

Josh:
All of this, like all of these viral videos that I'm seeing on Instagram and

Josh:
TikTok and everything like it, it's a really big deal.

Ejaaz:
So most of the virality is not happening on Sora though, right?

Ejaaz:
It's happening on like Instagram and TikTok. I've seen a million Sora videos

Ejaaz:
that have got like millions of likes and hundreds of millions of views,

Ejaaz:
not on the actual Sora app. So that's probably like a loop that they need to tie in.

Ejaaz:
But I have to push back on you a little bit, Josh, because whilst they were

Ejaaz:
brave with going down the, hey, we're going to infringe on a bunch of copyright

Ejaaz:
and you can sue us or opt out or whatever.

Ejaaz:
They've kind of been backtracking on that this week as well.

Ejaaz:
They've basically been removing a bunch of copyrighted material.

Ejaaz:
And it's resulted in an experience where when people are trying to create videos,

Ejaaz:
and I've seen this myself, you just get an error message saying,

Ejaaz:
sorry, we can't create that video. It's been prohibited.

Ejaaz:
And after that happens two to three times i'm kind of disenchanted i'm disincentivized

Ejaaz:
to create a video because i'm like well what can i create the whole point of

Ejaaz:
me coming here is uh me creating a video with um super mario brothers and running

Ejaaz:
in the game with them right and now i can't do that so so what's the point.

Josh:
Yeah i will say the benefit of doing

Josh:
that five days in versus on day zero is

Josh:
this like huge astronomical difference because we

Josh:
did get those five days of virality it did get to number one i

Josh:
did see in in the time that i was interested in

Josh:
the application it was fantastic because it had none of the

Josh:
guy rails so even though they are adding them retroactively i

Josh:
do like the fact that they were able to do that on day five instead of

Josh:
day zero and i think that may have been the difference between number

Josh:
one in the app store and just like a vibes like meta

Josh:
experiment where it's just it's just lame off the bat like you

Josh:
never even get a chance to try the unhinged version at least

Josh:
we got a little taste of the unhinged version and then also just one

Josh:
little comment for the people who made it to the end of our last episode i

Josh:
did drop some sort of two codes for the people who commented i gave

Josh:
you all of them i have none left so he just if you have any more please

Josh:
drop them for the nice people um but thank

Josh:
you for for listening and replying all of mine got taken i

Josh:
was like doing a little ponzi scheme with my friends where i would invite one

Josh:
and then take the four invites so i could drop more um i'm out i got nothing

Josh:
left but thank you for commenting anyway um and we'll try to get more we'll

Josh:
try to refill them because i want to give the people who listen a little reward

Josh:
especially for those that make it to the end so thank you again yeah but yeah yeah um

Ejaaz:
Yeah as josh mentioned we are working with open

Ejaaz:
ai to get you a bunch of codes for limitless listeners

Ejaaz:
you guys have been the most enthusiastic ever so we have

Ejaaz:
got you there all right josh apple is potentially

Ejaaz:
shelving the development of their cheaper

Ejaaz:
lighter vision pro revamp called the vision

Ejaaz:
air because they might want to create a bunch of spectacles you know some glasses

Ejaaz:
that do ai stuff similar to metaglasses and maybe even similar to what um open

Ejaaz:
air might release what do you have to say to that because i got a pretty smug

Ejaaz:
face uh on my i've got a pretty smug look on my face right now because i thought

Ejaaz:
vision pro was the future

Ejaaz:
I thought they were going to create something cool new and now they're going to be making glasses.

Josh:
I have a couple of points to this. The first point I want to make is about the

Josh:
glasses that exist in the market,

Josh:
particularly regarding yours that you ordered a couple of weeks ago.

Josh:
Where are they? Where are those MetaQuest glasses? They're not here.

Josh:
Yeah. Why are they not here? They haven't even shipped the damn product.

Josh:
No one could get the freaking thing.

Josh:
They don't work. They suck. They're not delivering them. They're not available.

Josh:
There's no prescriptions available. If you have glasses, you literally cannot

Josh:
wear them because they do not support a lot of prescriptions.

Josh:
It's just like this disaster of a release. It's not a real product.

Ejaaz:
I'm looking at my email. right now and it still says hasn't been it's not even

Ejaaz:
out for delivery garbage.

Josh:
I'm being screwed oh my god see listen i

Josh:
hate saying i told you so but you know maybe i told you so anyways

Josh:
one day um there is no serious player in the

Josh:
glasses market right now so that is one reason

Josh:
why um i think there's a lot of things happening at apple that

Josh:
are probably contributing to this one of them one of the most important ones actually

Josh:
is the leadership shake-up that we're seeing now there's been a lot of executives

Josh:
in the apple c-suite that have been around for decades multiple decades plus

Josh:
and a lot of them are either leaving or restructuring or changing where they're

Josh:
going to be tim cook is making it clear that um he is starting to transition

Josh:
out of the ceo spot there will be the new i think he's the chief of product

Josh:
the chief product engineer john

Josh:
terminus john termis uh yeah awesome they've recently started giving a lot of

Josh:
publicity he's likely to step into the ceo slot i'm hoping he has a role in

Josh:
strategic changes in the company because OpenAI is very much, or oh my God, OpenAI,

Josh:
Tim Cook is very much an operator. He's a business operator.

Josh:
He ran Apple from like whatever small market cap they were to this astronomical

Josh:
giant they are today. But as a result, product innovation suffered.

Josh:
So with a new product leader at the forefront leaving this company,

Josh:
I'm hopeful that they will start to take their products much more seriously.

Josh:
And perhaps the glasses are a pivot to that.

Josh:
I think the Vision Pro, and I think a lot of people kind of think that is a

Josh:
stepping stone towards the glasses form factor.

Josh:
Switching from improving the Vision Pro to just going right for the glasses,

Josh:
I would like to believe means that they have just kind of innovated a little

Josh:
faster than they initially intended.

Josh:
We saw the technology get micro-sized for the iPhone Air.

Josh:
I think that's a really good proof of concept. We saw the really small displays,

Josh:
all the compute being left in the plateau.

Josh:
It's this like really elegant, beautiful device. They stick down in glasses.

Josh:
They have a killer product.

Josh:
I think this is the right move. I'm a little disappointed because man the Vision

Josh:
Pros are fantastic I mean look at this photo they're amazing they work so well

Josh:
I don't have a pair no because they were $3,500 it's a lot of money to justify

Josh:
something I won't use that much

Josh:
because there's just again there's no ecosystem developer support but as a product

Josh:
they're amazing so it makes me sad that

Josh:
We're not getting a ton of innovation on that front, but I'm hopeful this means

Josh:
that the glasses will come sooner.

Josh:
And when Apple delivers glasses, Ejaz, I promise you, they will be actually good.

Josh:
And they will deliver them on time, and they will have high-resolution displays,

Josh:
and they will have a lot of utility in an ecosystem that you actually participate

Josh:
in instead of this weird siloed meta thing.

Ejaaz:
And it'll just come out in 2030 or 2035, maybe. Yeah, we'll just have to wait a decade.

Josh:
It'll be a long time. So don't expect glasses anytime soon. But in the meantime,

Josh:
we will have hardware from OpenAI that we can actually enjoy because we'll have

Josh:
some good hardware on the AI front, which I think will hopefully be able to

Josh:
hold us over until our super cool glasses get released.

Josh:
But I think that's probably everything, right? Unless you got more beef,

Josh:
unless you want to find some more about Apple.

Ejaaz:
No, no, no, no. I largely agree with your point of view. I just have been bearish

Ejaaz:
at the way that they've been delivering.

Ejaaz:
I hope this new leadership change actually happens, Josh. and if they're putting

Ejaaz:
a hardware guy at the helm, that is extremely bullish because that means he's

Ejaaz:
going to come up with a new hardware product and he's probably not going to

Ejaaz:
be another, it's probably not going to be another iPhone.

Ejaaz:
It's probably going to be something major. He wants to put his foot down,

Ejaaz:
stamp his kind of like legacy. So I'm excited about that.

Ejaaz:
But that is it for this week's roundup episode, folks.

Ejaaz:
As Josh mentioned, the thing that we're giving out are Sora codes.

Ejaaz:
Josh may not have many right now, but he will have plenty in about two days

Ejaaz:
time when I get a response from the OpenAI folks, Josh. That is the latest update, by the way.

Josh:
Okay, all right. Because I was going to say, don't promise the people we can't

Josh:
give, but we do have insider info.

Ejaaz:
We do have insider info. So this week, Josh, what should we incentivize listeners

Ejaaz:
to do to get an invite code? You get to pick this week.

Josh:
Well, they could just say that they made it to the end of it.

Josh:
Like, do you want to give them a keyword or something? Like,

Josh:
if you're still watching this episode, you deserve everything.

Josh:
The fact that you're stuck with us for like almost 40 minutes,

Josh:
like, whatever I could give, please take it. So comment.

Ejaaz:
Jensen huang he's the guy comment jensen huang and we'll get you a sora code.

Josh:
Okay ijaz is gonna get you the story he's like plugged into this whole of an

Josh:
hour world he's the one that chatted the people early in this week check out

Josh:
the episode if you haven't it's fantastic all about memory and pulse we'll work

Josh:
on getting you those codes you could try sora and then you could let us know

Josh:
if you like it or hate it because i'm very much in the hater basket ijaz is a lover

Josh:
but i want you to have the opportunity to try and if you haven't please don't

Josh:
forget to like the videos subscribe share with your friends all the good things

Josh:
and we're back tomorrow with an exciting episode about robots there's a new

Josh:
robot announcement no one knows it yet but it's coming and it's going to be

Josh:
tomorrow we're going to talk all about it and i will see you guys then thank

Josh:
you for watching peace oh

Ejaaz:
And cameo us on sora yay.