Limitless Podcast

Ejaaz:
Imagine you went to sleep one night and woke up to your investment portfolio

Ejaaz:
up 500%, but not because you're a genius stock picker, but because you let an AI model trade for you.

Ejaaz:
Well, this week, that's exactly what happened. Someone gave Grok and five other

Ejaaz:
Frontier AI models $10,000 each with one specific goal in mind,

Ejaaz:
make as much money as you can through trading.

Ejaaz:
And Josh, some of the returns these models have made are insane.

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They're beating some of the top hedge funds in the world.

Ejaaz:
So in this episode, Josh and I are going to cover how these AI models are trading.

Ejaaz:
Most importantly, what trades specifically they're making. And most importantly,

Ejaaz:
is AI finally smart enough to make us all rich?

Ejaaz:
Josh, who's behind this experiment? And are we getting rich?

Josh:
In addition to this, I do want to highlight an important thing that this is

Josh:
doing is there is a new benchmark in town.

Josh:
I think frequently we talk about how we are just so sick of benchmarks. They can be gamified.

Josh:
They can be rigged. What's happening here is a whole new paradigm for benchmarking,

Josh:
which is putting your money where your mouth is, getting some exposure,

Josh:
doing so publicly, and actually using these models to invest in public markets

Josh:
and seeing how they perform.

Josh:
And that's what makes this company N of One so special is their whole purpose

Josh:
is to build a new paradigm for benchmarking by allowing you to do so in the

Josh:
public with the second order effects of possibly making you a little bit of money.

Josh:
So there's a lot of really interesting dynamics at play here.

Josh:
The website's really pretty.

Josh:
I've been going through all of this stuff after you sent it to me,

Josh:
EJS. But one of the things that was most shocking to me was the actual returns

Josh:
that they were able to get, starting with, I mean, one of our favorites, Grok.

Josh:
Grok has this crazy return. What? How did it get 500%? Is that right?

Ejaaz:
Yep. Yep. So what I'm about to tell you is crazy.

Ejaaz:
The Grok AI model was given 200 bucks in this little pre-training experiment

Ejaaz:
to trade and make as much money as it can

Ejaaz:
And it made 500% in returns in one single day.

Ejaaz:
So as you can see here, it absolutely obliterated the entirety of its competition.

Ejaaz:
It beat GPT-5. It beat the latest Claude model.

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If you look at this chart, it is just completely vertical.

Ejaaz:
And what I loved about this, Josh, was the strategy that it employed.

Ejaaz:
It was completely different from the other AI models, and it was super smart what it did.

Ejaaz:
Initially it looked at the

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macro market and realized that things weren't looking too

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great so it went short on the entire

Ejaaz:
market josh it went 20x short btc it

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went 20x short eth and made a bunch of

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money doing that but then after about 12 hours of doing this it realized that

Ejaaz:
it should probably go long and so it did a bunch of analysis through its own

Ejaaz:
data and went the opposite on its trade and ended up predicting exactly when

Ejaaz:
the market was going to bounce and made a ton of money since then.

Ejaaz:
That's why this chart is vertical.

Josh:
I'm going to need to start putting money in AI bots. I find it really fascinating

Josh:
that, one, the amount of risk that it was comfortable putting on,

Josh:
and then two, the amount of success it actually had and how well it worked.

Josh:
It leads me to wonder, if an AI model is just kind of a compression of human

Josh:
intelligence derived through the internet, Markets are very emotionally driven engines.

Josh:
Is it able to kind of front run that emotion by removing the emotion?

Josh:
I mean, naturally, large language models, they have no emotion,

Josh:
but they have all of this data about how we function.

Josh:
I mean, maybe this is a new investing paradigm where people can actually start making money.

Ejaaz:
Josh, I actually think you hit the nail on the head and it's also my pet theory as well.

Ejaaz:
The reason why Grok is the best at trading in this instance is because it has

Ejaaz:
access to all of X's data, all the tweets that we put out.

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So it has an idea of how the market and psychology of the market is thinking at any given moment.

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So it makes trades based on that.

Ejaaz:
So if everyone's super bullish, maybe it's like, I'm going to short the market.

Ejaaz:
When everyone's super bearish, they're like, oh, I'm going to go 20x long on BTC or whatever asset.

Josh:
That's amazing. If the XAI team wasn't working so hard on AGI,

Josh:
they could have a really compelling product by creating a trading engine using

Josh:
all the real-time data from X.

Josh:
This is done on Hyperliquid, which is a crypto trading platform.

Josh:
So it's interesting to see that there is crypto integrated in this.

Josh:
And speaking of crypto, we do have a sponsor today that we do need to get to.

Josh:
That is crypto adjacent named KeyGen. KeyGen is building the world's largest

Josh:
verified distribution protocol, aka Verify.

Josh:
What is Verify? It focuses on ensuring only real high-quality users participate

Josh:
in digital platforms addressing issues like fake accounts, bots,

Josh:
and fraudulent activity.

Josh:
How? This protocol uses advanced biometrics and fraud protection technologies

Josh:
to block fake users. The system is essentially

Josh:
for AI and consumer app developers who require high quality,

Josh:
fraud-free data and engagement to train models and expand their products globally.

Josh:
They're already used by over 200 plus clients across AI gaming, DeFi and consumer apps.

Josh:
So if you need to train your AI on real data, check out Kijen.

Josh:
We will have a link in their show notes.

Josh:
Thank you, Kijen, for sponsoring the show. And now let's talk about more real AI.

Josh:
They gave $10,000 to each one of these models, right? So that's how this was starting.

Josh:
So how many models are there? How much money is on play total and then where

Josh:
is everyone at currently in this race

Ejaaz:
Yes so to give a bit more background this new

Ejaaz:
ai lab gave six ai models

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all models that you've heard of before we're talking about grok 4 we're

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talking about anthropics claw we're talking about chat gpt5 and

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some chinese models some competitors quen and deep

Ejaaz:
seek ten thousand dollars each um and

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with the specific goal of making as much money as they can through trading

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only six assets so in this initial part of

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the competition they're allowed to trade for three weeks six assets

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only and as you mentioned earlier josh they're trading specifically on

Ejaaz:
a platform trading platform called hyper liquid which gives them

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access to to do all these things um and josh i think aside from some of the

Ejaaz:
returns that these models have made the website is also super impressive because

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i've just been glued to it like like for the entire weekend um it is this really

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interactive thing where you can kind of see the performance of models.

Ejaaz:
And it's pretty clear who's doing well at this point and who isn't.

Ejaaz:
For those of you who are just listening, I'm circling three models right now,

Ejaaz:
which is DeepSeek, which is right at the top with almost $13,000.

Ejaaz:
Remember, they started with $10,000. So that's a pretty impressive return for over two days so far.

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Right beneath it, tailing it, is Grok coming in at $12,500 and catching up a

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surprise winner from this morning actually Claude Anthropic who was originally

Ejaaz:
down and underperforming is catching up to Grok just beneath it at $12,500.

Ejaaz:
$200 at this moment of speaking. Do you have any initial takes on this?

Ejaaz:
And do you have any explanation as to why ChatGPT and Google Gemini have lost almost $3,000 today?

Josh:
Well, ChatGPT, it's still thinking of its next trade. It'll be thinking for

Josh:
the next day. So it's still figuring it out.

Josh:
ChatGPT really loves to think really long and hard about its decision.

Josh:
So we'll hear more from ChatGPT in a day from now.

Josh:
It's funny, if I were to pick the top three, without seeing

Josh:
this chart i probably would have picked grok i would have picked uh

Josh:
deep seek and i would have picked claude and the

Josh:
reason is because well one grok is unhinged

Josh:
super high risk tolerance uh super like large

Josh:
access to current trends rip and trades deep

Josh:
seek which i saw earlier they had like this crazy leverage

Josh:
trade put on like deep seek is just like the chinese degen model

Josh:
and what i like about uh these models is

Josh:
they're not really filtered when you talk to grok

Josh:
when you talk to deep seek they just kind of give you the answers they

Josh:
don't kind of fill it up with all of this like you know additional filler

Josh:
and complementary words and claude is the most technical of

Josh:
all of these like when people use claude when people think of anthropic they

Josh:
think of code and code i mean it just

Josh:
seems like it maps better to investing than general purpose

Josh:
large language models i would have predicted chat gpt to be

Josh:
low just because chat gpt is so oh you're

Josh:
so right oh the market should go up oh

Josh:
oh i'm down 20 it's fine like we're going

Josh:
to be okay we'll make it up it's just not like a it's

Josh:
not who i want to go to to seek truth i guess is a good way of framing it now

Josh:
gemini in last place i gotta say i'm a little disappointed because i mean we've

Josh:
been very big google bowls recently and seeing gemini all the way down there

Josh:
at the bottom uh it does make me

Josh:
sad i wonder i don't really have a good explanation of why they're at the

Josh:
If we're comparing countries, Quentin and Alibaba are first and fourth place.

Josh:
And the US is getting two, three, five, and six.

Josh:
So nice little distribution there. I don't know, do you have any gut takes,

Josh:
initial reactions on the placing of these?

Ejaaz:
That's really interesting how you prescribed a personality to each of these, Josh.

Ejaaz:
I would agree, but I actually have some disagreements with you.

Ejaaz:
I would have never expected Claude to be up there because I always thought Claude

Ejaaz:
was kind of a knock. Like it's just this like nerd that doesn't kind of really

Ejaaz:
pay attention, tries to follow like the rules too much.

Ejaaz:
And to your point, like Grok is kind of like the rebel, right?

Ejaaz:
It kind of like high risk taking. I don't see Claude.

Ejaaz:
Quite unhinged. I don't see Claude kind of as that. It seems to me as a rule

Ejaaz:
follower, but your point around coding kind of makes sense.

Ejaaz:
Like I'm trying to now imagine if Claude was a human, it would be some kind

Ejaaz:
of quantitative trader, some algo trader that works at like a hedge fund.

Ejaaz:
I completely get that. the chat gpt thing

Ejaaz:
makes so much sense it's agreeable it's

Ejaaz:
high sick of fancy if i say oh my

Ejaaz:
god i really fancy jumping out my window uh and

Ejaaz:
i'm for those of you don't know i'm like on a high floor um building

Ejaaz:
right now it would be like yeah you know what that sounds like a really

Ejaaz:
good idea so it's a sheep it makes sense right to my

Ejaaz:
earlier example like if it sees everyone on x being

Ejaaz:
super bullish it's probably like oh my god i should go 20x long

Ejaaz:
and ironically that's what it did when the

Ejaaz:
markets were tanking and it like lost a bunch

Ejaaz:
of money by doing that so i think that there's

Ejaaz:
something interesting here the deep seek being number

Ejaaz:
one makes a lot of sense to me you know you know why josh because

Ejaaz:
it was a it was a hedge fund that created deep seek do you remember it was it

Ejaaz:
was a hedge fund team interesting that developed the deep seek model so it actually

Ejaaz:
doesn't surprise me at all if i'm probably not mistaken this uh model was probably

Ejaaz:
trained on a ton of quantitative trading historical data.

Ejaaz:
So it doesn't surprise me at all. In fact, I expect it to win.

Josh:
Interesting. Okay. One of the things that is most interesting to me actually

Josh:
is the returns that they're getting this quickly.

Josh:
I mean, this competition, it looks like this chart started October 17th,

Josh:
which is not that long ago. At the time of recording today, it's October 20th. It's been 72 hours.

Josh:
And over the course of 72 hours, we do see these kind of patterns that are happening. But what is it?

Josh:
DeepSeek is up 30% in three days. They're averaging 10% return a day.

Josh:
And Gronk is right behind and Claude is right behind. So they're very clearly

Josh:
open to risk and taking large amounts. Oh my God, look at this Grok position.

Josh:
It's 10x long on Ripple, 10x long on Doge, 20x long on Bitcoin.

Josh:
If you're seeing this, I would never advise you to ever use this much leverage on a position.

Ejaaz:
It's not financial advice.

Josh:
And it's really fascinating to see, though, because you would imagine there

Josh:
is some sort of game theory optimal trading strategy that they're running in

Josh:
their systems based on what they know.

Josh:
And it looks like almost all of these are long using leverage.

Josh:
So it's interesting to diagnose the positions.

Josh:
Well, it is. What is this post here? It's going viral and why.

Ejaaz:
Shall we maybe dig in to like some of the trading strategies that these guys

Ejaaz:
are doing? Yeah, I want to know how they're.

Josh:
Making 10% a day.

Ejaaz:
Like who's taking risk and who's analyzing the market versus who's playing kind of conservative.

Ejaaz:
So let's run through a few tweets that we have here, which kind of like have takeaways from this.

Ejaaz:
So in this initial tweet, it highlights that Grok and DeepSeek,

Ejaaz:
who are currently number two and number one in this competition,

Ejaaz:
went max long immediately when the competition started.

Ejaaz:
That means they went like 10 to 20x leverage, which is extremely high leverage

Ejaaz:
and high risk bet to make with most of their notional capital.

Ejaaz:
So most of their 10K that they used, they're just like, I'm going to slam this

Ejaaz:
in a 20x long for BTC and for ETH and for XRP.

Ejaaz:
And today's rally has put them in the lead. So, hey, no risk,

Ejaaz:
no reward. And they just kind of like went full in.

Ejaaz:
GBT and Gemini, interestingly, went the complete opposite. it.

Ejaaz:
They went hard, but they shorted instead of longing.

Ejaaz:
And this might be for a few reasons, Josh. So what this tells me initially is

Ejaaz:
I think Grok and DeepSeek are trained on better financial data and are better

Ejaaz:
at evaluating markets for trading than GPT and Gemini.

Ejaaz:
So GPT and Gemini might be great generalized models.

Ejaaz:
What this reminds me of is they haven't been given access to social media data

Ejaaz:
like X and maybe DeepSeek has.

Ejaaz:
I remember reading DeepSeek was trained on a bunch of X and Reddit data as well.

Ejaaz:
So they probably have an idea of the psychology of a trader's mind,

Ejaaz:
whereas it's kind of obvious to me that GPT and Gemini kind of don't.

Josh:
I'm really curious on the technicals

Josh:
of how they're actually ingesting information and making trades.

Josh:
Is there some guy who's just typing like commands into a terminal like hey here's

Josh:
the current price let me know if you want to make any trades like what is i'm

Josh:
curious what's actually going on behind the scenes because they are language

Josh:
models they do need to be getting some sort of real-time data right i wonder

Josh:
what that prompting structure looks like in order to initiate them to

Josh:
make these trades and make these decisions um there is

Josh:
one side thing that i also find interesting is that

Josh:
chat gpt and gemini both chose to to short right off

Josh:
the bat and i wonder if that has anything to do with their just

Josh:
like their emotional sentiment um whereas like

Josh:
are does that lead to like a model that is

Josh:
slightly more conservative slightly more like reserved in how they deploy capital

Josh:
and how they make these decisions versus the others that just went max long

Josh:
right away they're just like no we're going up we are positive optimistic i

Josh:
wonder if it's a reflection of kind of like the the sentiment of the model as

Josh:
well which is another basis for speculation.

Ejaaz:
Josh, that's a really interesting take because that just reminded me of an experiment

Ejaaz:
that we spoke about on an episode. I think it's like,

Ejaaz:
three months ago, which is an eternity ago, Josh, where a bunch of researchers

Ejaaz:
ran an experiment similar to this, but the goal was you have a group project

Ejaaz:
to pitch to me how you're going to make money.

Ejaaz:
So they weren't given money. They were just asked to make a presentation or

Ejaaz:
an argument as to how they would make money, similar to like a university or

Ejaaz:
college group project that you asked in like finance or business school, right?

Ejaaz:
And we saw the opposite behavior happen with these models back then.

Ejaaz:
So GPT and Gemini were actually the most proactive.

Ejaaz:
They did all the research, they did a bunch of analysis, and they created this

Ejaaz:
really kind of like primrose, perfect looking framework and theory of how they were going to do it.

Ejaaz:
Meanwhile, I remember reading that Grok, and I don't know whether there were

Ejaaz:
some Chinese models, but I remember Grok was kind of just like chilling,

Ejaaz:
didn't really do much, and said that it kind of kept on putting off the work.

Ejaaz:
So it's this kind of interesting thing where when it comes into the actual practicality

Ejaaz:
of the task, it seems that Grok and these Chinese models are way more kind of

Ejaaz:
like gung-ho and they want to do the thing versus plan and strategize and write

Ejaaz:
like some kind of theory around it.

Ejaaz:
I don't know if that's relevant at all to this, but I just find it interesting

Ejaaz:
when it comes to like the behavior and personalities that you talk about.

Josh:
Yeah, and there's got to be some significant differences in the prompting of

Josh:
them too, because I'm going through these positions and every single model right

Josh:
now has leverage of at least 10x.

Josh:
No model here has less than 10x leverage on a single position.

Josh:
So they're using this outrageous amount of risk. And I have to imagine it's

Josh:
not because they were trained that way, because I imagine most of the average

Josh:
people, they're not trading on 10x leverage.

Josh:
So I wonder what type of prompting happened in the back end to compel them to

Josh:
want to use this level of risk at all times.

Josh:
But it's a fascinating experiment, I guess, playing around with these benchmarks

Josh:
and seeing different ways to do it in public.

Josh:
I like one that there's skin in the game that I mentioned earlier.

Josh:
But I also like the fact that it's just publicly verifiable and not gameable

Josh:
because you're competing in public open markets with everybody else.

Josh:
And your AI really has to assert its dominance over other humans who are live

Josh:
and thinking versus this controlled math set that has like a very like fixed array of outcomes.

Josh:
And the dynamic thinking really is...

Josh:
It's something noteworthy. And I think this is a really cool trend that I hope more people do.

Josh:
It's just public benchmarks that are much more difficult to game than others.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I've said for a long while now that AI

Ejaaz:
shouldn't just be your favorite knowledge worker or your assistant that teaches you about the world.

Ejaaz:
It should do things for you. And the most practical thing for most people is like, how do I survive?

Ejaaz:
How do I make money from my living? Like, can you help me make more money?

Ejaaz:
And finances always appeal to me. My background is from crypto.

Ejaaz:
Josh, you and I have covered that topic for a while now.

Ejaaz:
And so seeing something like this kind of like gets me really excited.

Ejaaz:
You know, like what other AI tools are out there that can give you a 42% return

Ejaaz:
over the weekend, Josh, which is exactly what DeepSeat did this weekend.

Ejaaz:
It's just kind of insane.

Ejaaz:
Another thing that I find really interesting is just kind of like some of the

Ejaaz:
stats that come from this.

Ejaaz:
Uh i've got a tweet pulled up here which kind of gives you

Ejaaz:
the overview of some of the strategies that these models

Ejaaz:
are doing um so i'm going to read through a few here um number one leverage

Ejaaz:
has been normalized across all models that's what you were just saying uh josh

Ejaaz:
high leverage in particular um with gemini 2.5 pro going ham on leverage yesterday

Ejaaz:
15x or so which is just absolutely insane.

Ejaaz:
Quen 3 Max, which is a Chinese model, and Gemini 2.5 Pro don't seem to be the

Ejaaz:
best executors. They're paying a ton of fees for their position.

Ejaaz:
So what that means is when you open up a leverage position, you're often paying

Ejaaz:
fees back to the platform as kind of like a tax or stamp duty for opening your position.

Ejaaz:
Quen 3 Max and Gemini 2.5 Pro are also the only ones with closed positions that

Ejaaz:
are profitable, but also lost too much on other trades, causing them to still be in a loss.

Ejaaz:
So what it's talking about here is when you open up a position for leverage,

Ejaaz:
you can close it for either a profit or a loss.

Ejaaz:
The winners or the leaders right now, DeepSeek and Grok, haven't closed any positions.

Ejaaz:
They just went max long from the start and they haven't relented yet.

Ejaaz:
They haven't closed. So what I want to point out there is they could still lose

Ejaaz:
it all. They haven't booked in that profit at all.

Ejaaz:
So I don't know, I'm kind of nervous. This could all change in a matter of an

Ejaaz:
hour, Josh. What do you think?

Josh:
Like, okay, I want to, as we kind of wrap this up, I want to play as bets.

Josh:
I want us to play our own bets because nobody's been liquidated yet.

Josh:
And with the amount of risk they're taking, it is inevitable.

Josh:
It is only a matter of time.

Josh:
So I want to ask you first, who is the model you think most likely to be liquidated?

Josh:
Because, yeah, we're looking at a post here where the club is taking a max long position.

Ejaaz:
I think it's going to be Grok. If I'm being honest with you,

Ejaaz:
I don't want to say, but I think it's going to be Grok.

Ejaaz:
The leverage it's using. Here's my reasoning. The leverage it's using is insane.

Ejaaz:
It is more extreme than DeepSeek, which is number one.

Ejaaz:
So to me, as a trader myself, that seems to me it's a revenge trading method. It's mad.

Ejaaz:
It's going ham. And it is like driving fast. It's drunk.

Ejaaz:
It might wrap around a telephone pole. I don't know, but it's going for it.

Ejaaz:
So it might result in a major win, but it might result in a major loss.

Ejaaz:
So I'm going with Grok. Grok's going to get liquidated.

Josh:
That's a good take. I think since you're going with Grok, I'll go with DeepSeek.

Josh:
I just got to go for the crazy highly volatile positions yeah yeah

Josh:
They're taking just outrageously long leveraged positions and like something's going to go wrong.

Josh:
Like just two weeks ago, what, the crypto market dropped? Like we liquidated

Josh:
30 something billion dollars in like an hour.

Josh:
These things happen and they move frequently. And granted, an AI is running

Josh:
this. So I assume there's not a lot of latency between their decision and the trade.

Josh:
But like this is a huge amount of leverage to be locked on in every single position.

Josh:
Like if one of these coins gets wiped for like 10% even, you've lost 100% of

Josh:
your money. so i'll probably go with deep seek um over the next let's say month

Josh:
ejs who's your winner who do you think is the best longer term trader

Ejaaz:
This might be a wild card of a guess um but i actually think it's it might be

Ejaaz:
anthropic and as i'm saying this it is about to overtake man it's about to overtake

Ejaaz:
grok 4 and here's my reasoning behind this okay when it started it off in this

Ejaaz:
competition, it was doing terribly, Josh.

Ejaaz:
It was underperforming, not as bad as GPTO Gemini, who is like further down

Ejaaz:
in the chart, but it was doing bad. But then it learned.

Ejaaz:
It did some analysis and it closed its positions that were already in a loss

Ejaaz:
and thought, okay, I'll take that loss and let me try this new strategy.

Ejaaz:
And it's been working heavily in its favor. So it's demonstrated two things

Ejaaz:
to me. One, it's able to adapt and learn.

Ejaaz:
Grok and DeepSeek haven't demonstrated that. They're just on a lucky streak

Ejaaz:
right now. They haven't taken any else. Let's see how they perform under duress, right?

Ejaaz:
And then number two, Claude is willing to take risk when it's learned from its

Ejaaz:
lesson and go hard. So I think maybe over time it might end up.

Josh:
What about you okay i'm going to go with quen who we did not mention much this

Josh:
episode because quen is just kind of pegged to the middle and in fact i don't

Josh:
think we really talk much about position open there so let me let me explain my why so

Ejaaz:
Okay so quen.

Josh:
Quen has been like kind of in the middle they haven't done much we don't really

Josh:
know much about quen like we know about a lot of these other labs and how they

Josh:
work uh quen's just kind of like this you know this middle of the road model.

Josh:
But what I've noticed in observing the positions, like you were about to highlight,

Josh:
Ejaz, is that it selects one position and it goes mega long on that one position.

Josh:
So just before we started recording, I was checking through Quen and Quen had

Josh:
a 20x long on Ether, all in.

Josh:
One position, all the money on a major coin. It sold that, it went to Bitcoin,

Josh:
now it is going 10x leverage on a very large position.

Josh:
So what I'd like about Quen and what i've observed is where a

Josh:
lot of other models are kind of spreading across a basket with lots

Josh:
of leverage quen is very hyper fixated on just the

Josh:
majors just ethereum just bitcoin back and forth i've been seeing a trade um

Josh:
and that to me seems much more sustainable than going max long on something

Josh:
like ripple that can just wipe you out in like a couple of minutes uh so i'm

Josh:
gonna go with quen for the winner the sleeper pick um for our little model trading

Josh:
i'm off to check in in a couple weeks or a month and see how these things do does

Ejaaz:
Gpt or gemini dig itself out of this hole it is currently down three thousand dollars.

Josh:
I want gemini too i'm not sure i want i want chad gpt too wait sorry what's your reasoning

Ejaaz:
Behind that why because.

Josh:
I i want i want chad gpt i

Josh:
want the world to know that chad gpt is being a weak-minded psychophantic like

Josh:
suck up and it's soft and i want chad gpt to be harder i want to be more direct

Josh:
i want to tell me the truth as it is and i want that to be reflected in the

Josh:
chart so that's just mostly me just virtue signaling that I want.

Josh:
I want ChatGPT to be a little more serious, a little more, a little more harder on the edges, you know?

Josh:
I think Gemini's got the dog in it. I don't think Chash GBT does.

Josh:
So we'll just have to wait. We'll have to wait and see. But this is fun to watch.

Ejaaz:
It is. And I want to hear what you guys, the listeners, have to say about this.

Ejaaz:
Like, who's your dog in the race? Like, who do you think is going to win? Do you disagree with us?

Ejaaz:
Right now, it seems like my bet might be paying off. Claude's coming through.

Ejaaz:
But if you have any kind of difference of opinions, let us hear it.

Ejaaz:
Maybe you know how these things are trained. Maybe you can train a better model. Let us know.

Ejaaz:
Before we wrap this episode up, Josh, I just want to shout out,

Ejaaz:
just kind of going back to nerdy mode for a second, how cool that this thing

Ejaaz:
is built on an open source stack.

Ejaaz:
We mentioned earlier that it's using an app called Hyperliquid.

Ejaaz:
That's basically a blockchain. So anyone and everyone can get access to it and

Ejaaz:
see the trades that these accounts are making, that these AI models are making.

Ejaaz:
And if you want to copy trade them, that's not financial advice.

Ejaaz:
I'm not saying that. You can, you know, you can see the data.

Ejaaz:
If you don't believe this website, if you don't believe the tweets that you

Ejaaz:
read, you can go and check that data for yourself and see what kinds of trades that are making.

Ejaaz:
So super cool that the fees seem to be cheaper than using an average trading

Ejaaz:
system and you can use it 24 7.

Ejaaz:
This is not a shill. We are not sponsored by HyperLigrid. I just think it's

Ejaaz:
really cool that they're using an open source stack finally without seeing anything

Ejaaz:
bad being said about crypto.

Josh:
Yeah, it's nice to see that there is they're testing these things in public

Josh:
and in a way that's verifiable and in a way that's not gameable.

Josh:
The biggest complaint that we always have is with benchmarks is that they're

Josh:
gameable you can very much program your model to perform better at these

Josh:
different benchmarks but this is the real world with real markets

Josh:
and real people and real emotions and they're forced to

Josh:
navigate a world that is not confined to a black box and instead has a lot of

Josh:
depth and a lot of volatility so it's exciting to see this trend of new and

Josh:
creative ways to benchmark this is particularly fun because you get to watch

Josh:
the charts and hopefully make some money off of it and i look forward to listen

Josh:
i look forward to using grok one day to hopefully advise my trading portfolio. That'd be pretty cool.

Josh:
So we'll, we'll see how it goes. This was super interesting.

Josh:
EJs, any final thoughts before we take off here?

Ejaaz:
Nope i i hope we make a bunch of money in the future.

Josh:
That is all i hope so too i hope so too and i hope

Josh:
um everyone who's listening this got a little kick out of it

Josh:
i'd love to hear like you just said who do you think is going to win but also

Josh:
why you need to include why you can't just say who you have to say why because

Josh:
i want another reasoning um and then i guess yeah who's going to be the best

Josh:
model that's going to be fun we'll circle back in a couple weeks and we'll we'll

Josh:
check in on this experiment but that is everything for today um thank you for

Josh:
watching as always we appreciate all of the new uh ratings and reviews and comments

Josh:
have been so overwhelmingly nice and positive it

Ejaaz:
Has been kicking off.

Josh:
Yeah seriously thank you so much for the support it really goes a long way we

Josh:
are slowly climbing up the leaderboards and it's all thanks to you so if you

Josh:
enjoyed please don't forget to like and subscribe share it with a friend who

Josh:
you think might be interested share it with a friend who did really bad in investing

Josh:
and maybe need some help maybe maybe just maybe they can use an ai and pretend

Josh:
like it's them and take all the credit so So that's it.

Josh:
That's another episode of the AI roll-up, round-up, whatever we want to call this thing.

Josh:
But thank you for listening. I appreciate it. And we'll see you guys in the next one.