Limitless: An AI Podcast

Josh:
You probably have six or seven apps on your phone that each do one thing.

Josh:
One controls the lights, a thermostat, your security cameras.

Josh:
Each has its own login, its own interface, and its own notifications.

Josh:
It's horribly annoying. Now, imagine replacing that all with a single WhatsApp

Josh:
thread or a single text message through your phone.

Josh:
That is CLAW. And it's not just for home automation. People are running CLAWs

Josh:
that monitor code bases and open pull requests when they sleep.

Josh:
They even draft these investor reports by pulling live market data.

Josh:
It can do anything that you can do, but digitally on your computer.

Josh:
The word claw describes something different from the AI that most people know.

Josh:
A lot of people are used to chatbots, which you type into, and it forgets everything

Josh:
about you by the next session.

Josh:
And then there's agents that are capable of actually going on the web and doing

Josh:
things for you, acting on your behalf.

Josh:
But then there's claws, things that run in the background that can orchestrate

Josh:
complicated tasks that have persistent memory that never forget.

Josh:
And that, that is what every major AI company in the world is building right now.

Josh:
Anthropic, OpenAI, Google, Perplexity, everybody is building a claw.

Josh:
And this episode, we're going to walk through all the options that you have

Josh:
and which one is overall best for you.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, the AI stack has changed quite aggressively over the last couple of months.

Ejaaz:
If we think of like the LLM as like the brain, then claws are kind of like the

Ejaaz:
arms and the limbs that allow you to actually do things.

Ejaaz:
Now, everyone's familiar with ChatGBT and clawed. It's kind of like you ask

Ejaaz:
it something and it gives you an answer in text, but it doesn't actually do anything for you.

Ejaaz:
And then we had the progression to AI agents, which is basically strapping an

Ejaaz:
LLM with a bunch of different tools, your email, Slack, whatever it might be.

Ejaaz:
But it was still super clunky.

Ejaaz:
It could like use the tool, but it didn't know when to use the tool.

Ejaaz:
And that's when OpenClaw and Claw started becoming really popular because it

Ejaaz:
tied in persistent memory and context about you with these different tools to

Ejaaz:
create a personal agent that actually worked. And that's why it went super viral.

Ejaaz:
Remember, this was a vibe-coded project, OpenClaw, formerly known as ClawedBot,

Ejaaz:
over the weekend by Pete Stuy.

Ejaaz:
And it went completely viral, where it has now tens of millions of users building

Ejaaz:
their own versions of personal agents every single day.

Ejaaz:
So if ChatGPT was the brain, you

Ejaaz:
now have OpenClaw or all these different claws, which do stuff for you.

Josh:
So now that we're familiar with what a claw is, there are kind of two tiers of these claws.

Josh:
One being plug and play. these are companies like anthropic open ai meta through

Josh:
their madness thing and perplexity these are the ones where you probably have

Josh:
an account it's twenty dollars a month they give you access to all the tools

Josh:
and then there is the fully custom ones this is what you are probably most familiar with

Josh:
being OpenClaw and all of the open source alternatives to the OpenClaw infrastructure.

Josh:
That's kind of for the hardcore tinkerers or people who really want to build

Josh:
custom stacks for their claws.

Josh:
But we should be starting probably with the foundation labs,

Josh:
the labs that everyone's familiar with, because chances are you already use

Josh:
them and have an account open with them already.

Ejaaz:
Yeah. So OpenAI of all the foundation labs is kind of what took OpenClaw being

Ejaaz:
a niche project to something more mainstream.

Ejaaz:
They technically didn't acquire Pete Stye and the OpenCore project.

Ejaaz:
It's technically still open source and they created a foundation,

Ejaaz:
but OpenAI basically owns OpenCore at this point. Pete Stye works.

Ejaaz:
He's a full-time employee at OpenAI and he's building out their version of OpenCore for OpenAI.

Ejaaz:
And so in Sam Altman's announcement post, he says he's joining OpenAI to drive

Ejaaz:
the generation of personal agents.

Ejaaz:
And what's interesting about Pete Stye's take on this is he still wants to build

Ejaaz:
OpenCore in the vision that he has for it.

Ejaaz:
But something interesting that Pete Stein mentioned on his podcast with Lex

Ejaaz:
Friedman is one of the reasons why Sam Olman was super excited about acquiring

Ejaaz:
OpenClaw Project as a whole and bringing it so close to ChatGPT is Sam realized a weakness in ChatGPT.

Ejaaz:
No matter how many apps or tools he created, no matter how much of an app store

Ejaaz:
he built on top of ChatGPT,

Ejaaz:
developers didn't really want to build on OpenAI because it didn't give them

Ejaaz:
the customization capability to be able to build the types of apps that they wanted to do.

Ejaaz:
And in their fairness, they can't envision exactly what AI apps look like right

Ejaaz:
now. This is the Wild West at the moment.

Ejaaz:
So he realized that it was probably best to build the number one or bring the

Ejaaz:
number one open source ecosystem for building customized personal AI agents

Ejaaz:
into OpenAI. And that's what he did with Pete Starr.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, so since the acquisition, OpenAI has built out a suite of different features,

Ejaaz:
which create their own version of OpenClaw for ChatGPT.

Ejaaz:
A few come to mind. So they have computer use, which allows ChatGPT to take

Ejaaz:
over your browser or desktop itself and do a bunch of things.

Ejaaz:
Now, it's important to know that OpenAI to date has acquired a lot of memory and context about you.

Ejaaz:
And now they're matching that with a personal agent, which is exactly what OpenClaw

Ejaaz:
is. So that's great to see.

Ejaaz:
They also have an AI browser called Atlas, which allows you to do any of the

Ejaaz:
browser extension type of stuff.

Ejaaz:
So if you want to do research or if you want to browse your email or do anything

Ejaaz:
that is in your online digital world, it can now also do that.

Ejaaz:
And the final thing is, of course, their coding agent, Codex itself,

Ejaaz:
which they integrate with the former two tools that I just mentioned,

Ejaaz:
which allow them to do the building and creation of new things that you want.

Ejaaz:
So you have this personal agent that sits within ChatGPT right now that can

Ejaaz:
do so much more than just be a chatbot LLM.

Josh:
Now, perhaps you don't have an OpenAI subscription and you have something like Anthropic on Claude.

Josh:
Well, you're in luck. Anthropic has probably the most robust alternative to OpenClaw.

Josh:
They didn't acquire OpenClaw, so therefore they were forced to build their own version.

Josh:
And they've deployed quite a few features and utilities that really make it

Josh:
a compelling offering for the average person who doesn't want to fully build

Josh:
a custom Claw stack. And there's this whole laundry list of things,

Josh:
starting with Claude Cowork.

Josh:
Funny enough, it only launched, what, less than three months ago?

Josh:
It hasn't even been around for that long.

Josh:
Two months ago. But it has been such a huge game changer because Cowork works

Josh:
with your entire computer.

Josh:
It allows it to access files on your desktop, execute those files,

Josh:
and actually make changes on your home computer so it can take over whatever

Josh:
you give it access to in a secure way.

Josh:
Just recently, yesterday, they released Routines, which are basically cron jobs

Josh:
for those who don't know. They're scheduled tasks that you can do with your computer off.

Josh:
You'll find a lot of people have been hyping up purchasing mac minis because

Josh:
they allow your computer to sit on your desk and stay always

Josh:
on well these new routines offer a cron

Josh:
job feature for your claude instance without your

Josh:
computer needing to be on all the time that's very cool they recently rolled

Josh:
out computer use which lets claude actually see your screen move the mouse around

Josh:
it can click type navigate apps and it's all permission gated so it's very secure

Josh:
you kind of choose what you want it to have access to and then it will go off

Josh:
and do whatever tasks that you ask it to do And then finally,

Josh:
there's this little thing you may have heard of called Clawed Code,

Josh:
which is probably the most popular coding developer engine that currently exists,

Josh:
all baked into one super app.

Josh:
So the Clawed Desktop app is a super app that is functioning as a hybrid claw

Josh:
that allows you to schedule these tasks, manage agents, actually engage with

Josh:
your computer and do so whether it's turned on or off. It's a really powerful piece of software.

Josh:
And personally, this is what I find myself using the most. I love the Anthropic

Josh:
stack that they've built, how there's connectors and plugins to a lot of the

Josh:
tools that I use that are third party.

Josh:
And I found it to be just very easy to set up, very robust and very secure in

Josh:
the sense that it only accesses the things that I explicitly give it permission to.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, it's really funny. Two months ago, Anthropic was the most hated company

Ejaaz:
from the OpenClaw community for one simple reason.

Ejaaz:
They started just banning people using Anthropic claw tools for OpenClaw.

Ejaaz:
And no one quite knew why. People thought that they fumbled by like,

Ejaaz:
you know, this was a missed PR opportunity. You could have gotten so many new

Ejaaz:
subscriptions and users.

Ejaaz:
But Anthropic wouldn't let loose why they were doing this thing.

Ejaaz:
Fast forward two months, and they've released, I believe it's 30 plus features

Ejaaz:
specifically to rebuild OpenClaw within a sandboxed and closed environment.

Ejaaz:
And the reason is pretty fair, which is OpenClaw is kind of the wild west.

Ejaaz:
There's a lot of security flaws.

Ejaaz:
It's kind of expensive. It's kind of hard to use. We create a packaged,

Ejaaz:
curated, cheap version all for 20 bucks a month for you to use.

Ejaaz:
And you don't have to worry about, you know, losing all your photos or your

Ejaaz:
hard drive information. You could just quietly and confidently use this product and it just works.

Ejaaz:
And that's what they shipped over the last two months.

Ejaaz:
That's kind of a little bit of a misdirection because really it's over the last

Ejaaz:
three weeks, they shipped the bulk of those features, just insane amount of delivery.

Ejaaz:
It wouldn't surprise me if they're using some kind of closed open core implementation

Ejaaz:
that they built within themselves to actually build and launch these features.

Ejaaz:
A few more things that are pretty cool about their version of OpenClaw,

Ejaaz:
which OpenClaw itself does not have.

Ejaaz:
You can currently shut your laptop that you're watching this video on right

Ejaaz:
now and still operate their version of OpenClaw because they have these things

Ejaaz:
called dispatch and routines that you mentioned earlier, which allows you to do this.

Ejaaz:
So they've really built a comprehensive suite that has rebuilt OpenClaw in a

Ejaaz:
much more meaningful way.

Ejaaz:
And it's important because Anthropic currently has the context and data on millions

Ejaaz:
and millions and millions of new retail users, which is key.

Ejaaz:
Like when it comes down to it, if everyone's building an open call,

Ejaaz:
the key differentiator ends up becoming context and data.

Ejaaz:
And Anthropic is one of two major companies right now, the other one being OpenAI

Ejaaz:
that has this advantage.

Josh:
So if you've heard all that, and Claude isn't quite for you,

Josh:
there's another competitor on the block that goes by the name of Meta.

Josh:
And now Meta, they actually haven't built their claw harness themselves.

Josh:
Instead, they acquired a company named Manus, if you remember,

Josh:
for about $2 billion in December of last year.

Josh:
And Manus is this harness that deploys fully autonomous agents to write code,

Josh:
deploy apps, browse websites, do all the things that you would expect in a claw,

Josh:
except doing so now with the meta operating system.

Josh:
So if you'll remember, we recorded an episode last week on Meta's new local models.

Josh:
They are looking to converge these two models and the agent harness into one

Josh:
instance. that seems like it's on the right track to becoming a pretty serious

Josh:
open claw competitor as well.

Ejaaz:
But not for the reason that you might think. So Manus and Meta have differentiated

Ejaaz:
their open claw offering in a very specific way.

Ejaaz:
They haven't offered it necessarily. Their hit product hasn't necessarily been

Ejaaz:
for retail users. It's been for advertisers.

Ejaaz:
Now, that's where Meta makes majority of their money through Facebook,

Ejaaz:
Instagram, and the likes.

Ejaaz:
They basically have a crazy advertising network. In fact, I read an article

Ejaaz:
earlier this week, I think two days ago, where their advertising rev is now

Ejaaz:
becoming extremely competitive with Google, which is like the monopoly on the

Ejaaz:
sector for God knows how long.

Ejaaz:
Manus specifically is being used to help advertisers not only create their advertising

Ejaaz:
campaign, but select product imagery,

Ejaaz:
control the tools that they use to kind of manufacture and articulate specific

Ejaaz:
advertisements to a target audience.

Ejaaz:
It does all the research for them in terms of how much time they should expose

Ejaaz:
an ad to a particular user. All these finer details is now managed by their

Ejaaz:
version of OpenClaw Manus.

Ejaaz:
And I think that's such an interesting niche because this is the sort of direction

Ejaaz:
that Meta has started to take with their LLMs as well.

Ejaaz:
Last week, they launched their own foundational model, the first that they've

Ejaaz:
launched in over a year called MuseSpark.

Ejaaz:
And it's not amazing as a general LLM, but it's great for specific tasks.

Ejaaz:
And they're doing the same with OpenCore. So if you're an advertiser watching

Ejaaz:
this, or if you're someone that wants to market their product on any of Meta's

Ejaaz:
apps, definitely go check out this product because it's extremely useful for

Ejaaz:
you right now and no one else is doing it.

Josh:
And the final claw in a box service that we're going to be talking about today is Perplexity,

Josh:
who just recently released perplexity computer and perplexity

Josh:
computer is interesting and slightly different from the rest of

Josh:
these options because perplexity is model agnostic it

Josh:
actually uses i believe 19 separate models that you can kind

Josh:
of choose from and it'll pick depending on what the task

Josh:
that you're using is and that model agnostic allows it

Josh:
to do things that are kind of unique to the perplexity platform it

Josh:
does everything that you expect it to it can do the research it can

Josh:
design code deploy projects whatever kind of miscellaneous tasks you want to

Josh:
do but it also has the benefit of being able to do so i mean you could do it

Josh:
fully in the cloud on the servers but they're also going to be rolling out a

Josh:
version that runs locally on your machine similar to what we were talking about

Josh:
with claude and open ai so perplexity is also in there it seems like the most

Josh:
accessible one i think a lot of people.

Josh:
Use perplexity kind of as a google extension and

Josh:
the way they've integrated computer is very easy and simple to

Josh:
understand in fact one of the new things that i found was cool

Josh:
is they deployed a tax expert where it

Josh:
will actually go through your filings and your w-2s and

Josh:
it'll give you the best tax advice that it can

Josh:
being a non-cpa but what i

Josh:
find interesting about this is just how accessible it is

Josh:
i find that a lot of the other things that we've talked about they're

Josh:
fairly open-ended it's on you to figure out your use cases for

Josh:
what you want to use this claw architecture for with perplexity

Josh:
they really do a good job of kind of honing in on specific use

Josh:
cases for you like the taxes like recently they interray with your bank accounts

Josh:
where it could actually see your specific finances and and give you these kind

Josh:
of unique but specific use cases and i think for a lot of people that may be

Josh:
interesting so i would say perplexity probably is the one that holds your hand

Josh:
the most and if you want something simple model agnostic that would be the one to choose.

Ejaaz:
It's hilarious to me because every time I think perplexity doesn't have a moat

Ejaaz:
and they're going to die, they somehow prove me wrong.

Ejaaz:
Like you mentioned, it's model agnostic. They sit on all of these other LLM

Ejaaz:
providers. Their moat isn't really the fact that they can access all these different models.

Ejaaz:
It's because they've created something called an agent harness,

Ejaaz:
which is, I guess, something that sits on top of all the agents that you would create.

Ejaaz:
It helps provide the right context at the right time and using the right tools

Ejaaz:
at the right time, which sounds like a claw, but they just do it better.

Ejaaz:
Across a variety of different models where Anthropik is just focused on Claude

Ejaaz:
and OpenAI is just focused on ChatGPT.

Ejaaz:
And the advantage that they have is not only is it cheaper, but it's more contextually

Ejaaz:
oriented around a specific task that you're doing.

Ejaaz:
So you mentioned two, you mentioned taxes and you mentioned the financials,

Ejaaz:
specifically like you can act like a CFO right now.

Ejaaz:
That's a good example of like how it can go deep into a specific vertical for

Ejaaz:
something that you don't want to do, whether it's taxes or sorting out your

Ejaaz:
accounting or finances.

Ejaaz:
And it can like figure that out in a couple of seconds.

Ejaaz:
And all of it for accessible, I think it's like for like a $20 a month package. So very cool.

Josh:
Yeah, that's the price of all these kind of all-in-one boxes.

Josh:
Is there about $20 a month to use the software that gives you access to all

Josh:
of these claw functionality tools?

Josh:
Now, that is the conclusion of the closed source all in a box,

Josh:
press one button and have everything done for you.

Josh:
Next is the open source movement. This is where OpenClaw lives and breathes.

Josh:
This is the most popular form of claw currently, just because OpenClaw went so viral so quickly.

Josh:
And OpenClaw is, like everyone knows, the open source version that started it all.

Josh:
It is the orchestration platform for agents that gets things done and is fully customizable.

Josh:
So if you find yourself as someone who is a tinkerer, someone who likes to experiment,

Josh:
someone who has resilience to fix a lot of bug issues that you may run into

Josh:
this is the platform for you because of how customizable it is due to the open

Josh:
source nature you have full platform control of everything that it does

Josh:
from the md files which suggest how it should act and behave to the actual code

Josh:
base that that you that it uses every day to actually make these decisions and

Josh:
enact on your behalf if you're an open claw user you're actively using open

Josh:
claw or you've at least already tried it it's more for the people who want the

Josh:
full customization who want to do anything that they can imagine with it and

Josh:
And there's also some interesting examples, Ides, you were telling me,

Josh:
of things that people have done that you wouldn't really necessarily think is

Josh:
something an OpenClaw instance would solve.

Ejaaz:
Okay. What's a problem that you might have five years from now?

Ejaaz:
Let me explain. Let me paint this picture for you. You own a house.

Ejaaz:
But it's missing one quintessential component. You don't have a pool in your backyard,

Josh:
Josh.

Ejaaz:
Well, what if I could help you with that?

Ejaaz:
What if not me could help you with that, but what if my OpenClaw or my Claw

Ejaaz:
agent could help you with that?

Josh:
Sounds lovely.

Ejaaz:
Someone created an OpenClaw agent that finds 500,000 to $1.2 million homes without a pool,

Ejaaz:
gets the images from Zillow or any other public website, renders a pool or an

Ejaaz:
image of a pool into their backyard, and then sends it to them with a cold DM

Ejaaz:
or cold email, basically saying, hey, doesn't this pool look really nice on you?

Ejaaz:
You should like consider leasing us or using us to create and set up your pool for them.

Ejaaz:
And the inbound has just been insane for it. So it scans satellite imagery for

Ejaaz:
mid-market homes, filters lot by size, pulls homeowner direct from public records,

Ejaaz:
and then like gets in contact with them with the new rendered image.

Ejaaz:
And the conversion rate, supposedly, from the claim, this is Twitter,

Ejaaz:
this is X after all, there are some crazy claims, has apparently been pretty

Ejaaz:
damn good. And if you look at the video over here on the right,

Ejaaz:
it looks pretty photorealistic.

Ejaaz:
It has like a video version of it as well. So you can see it kind of like a

Ejaaz:
pool floaty going around. Just a cool use of open core.

Ejaaz:
And then this second example, which I found like super interesting was this

Ejaaz:
mother uses or currently runs 11 open claw agents to help her raise her kids.

Ejaaz:
Now, that sounds insanely dystopian, but the framework is ironically,

Ejaaz:
in my opinion, one of the most useful examples of using open claw agents ever.

Ejaaz:
So one example is she has a job to maintain.

Ejaaz:
So one version of using all these open claw agents is she only uses voice space.

Ejaaz:
She doesn't type anything. Now, Josh, I know you're a massive fan of using voice

Ejaaz:
notes or speaking to your AI alarms.

Ejaaz:
So am I. It is just a much more efficient way to use it. So she doesn't code anymore.

Ejaaz:
She just speaks to agents about the specific type of thing that she wants to

Ejaaz:
build in her particular job. And it goes away and it does that.

Ejaaz:
But then she also needs to educate her kids.

Ejaaz:
Now, she homeschools her kids. And what she does is she takes her phone.

Ejaaz:
She takes a picture of a syllabus that she wants to teach her kid for the day.

Ejaaz:
And it generates a personalized lesson plan for each of her different kids tailored

Ejaaz:
to their specific preferences and she walks them through it.

Ejaaz:
Now, remember, it's homeschooled. So you don't necessarily have all the apparatus in your home.

Ejaaz:
She provides that context to all her open core agents and it knows which tool to use.

Ejaaz:
So like if there's a toy that she can use to demonstrate the specific lesson,

Ejaaz:
prompts her to go grab that toy and do all of this. So you might be wondering,

Ejaaz:
well, this is completely insane. Why would you use AI to teach your kids,

Ejaaz:
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Ejaaz:
The net net effect is it's freed her up to be more of a parent and spend time with her kids.

Ejaaz:
So all of that to tie a loop around and said she has more time on her hands

Ejaaz:
to spend time with the kids. So I thought that was a super cool use.

Ejaaz:
Now, going back to your point around open source, open claw agents in particular.

Ejaaz:
The customization is like a massive win for people, but it's also how cheap

Ejaaz:
it is for you to be able to run it on a local device. Maybe it's on your phone.

Ejaaz:
And also if you want to run like completely crazy projects like raising your

Ejaaz:
kids, using 12 open claw agents, you probably don't want to be spending a bunch

Ejaaz:
of different money on it.

Ejaaz:
And so she specifically uses PicoClaw, which I'm referencing right here.

Ejaaz:
And I think in some instances, IronClaw, when she's using personal data and

Ejaaz:
she wants to use like a Rust-based architecture.

Ejaaz:
All of that to say is all of these are free.

Ejaaz:
You can download them, access it yourself, and you can customize it in whichever way you want.

Ejaaz:
So if you're listening to this and you come up with a crazy idea,

Ejaaz:
please do it and let us know what you built because we're trying to track all

Ejaaz:
of these use cases whenever we can.

Josh:
Yeah. And a testament to the claw architecture being so resilient and robust.

Josh:
The real limitation, as it's always been, is how you can most creatively implement

Josh:
these tools to be most effective for you.

Josh:
And the ceiling is still like largely untapped. We don't know where this clocks

Josh:
out because people are doing really cool and interesting things with it every single day.

Josh:
There's so many great examples of it and great enhancements too.

Josh:
Now what sits on top of this layer even are the markdown files.

Josh:
So if anyone who's familiar with OpenClaw, there is like a soul.md

Josh:
file and there there are a series of these markdown files

Josh:
that kind of give the model intention they tell it

Josh:
what to do they tell it how to act and there's an entire kind

Josh:
of pseudo industry that's been built on top of this orchestrating of the agents

Josh:
of telling them how to act by embedding interesting markdown files with unique

Josh:
sets of directions now gary tan founder of y combinator he appears to have built

Josh:
one that has kind of become the most popular one perhaps which is G-Stack.

Josh:
He says, can you explain what G-Stack is and why it's this kind of valuable

Josh:
second layer to be built on top of your claws?

Ejaaz:
Yeah, I've seen conflicting opinions on both sides about what Karytown has built

Ejaaz:
here because he hyped it up.

Ejaaz:
Basically he said, I have made OpenClaw into this insane personal assistant

Ejaaz:
that actually does productive work for you and mine's the best implementation of that.

Ejaaz:
A bunch of engineers then evaluated what he had actually built and realized

Ejaaz:
that he had just wrote a very extensively And in his fairness,

Ejaaz:
very well articulated, meticulously detailed document, which describes what he wants his agent to do.

Ejaaz:
Gary Tan, if any of you have watched any of his interviews, is an extremely verbose kind of guy.

Ejaaz:
So it makes sense that, you know, he's worked with a bunch of these companies.

Ejaaz:
He's had a bit of experience.

Ejaaz:
He kind of knows what to ask for. And so the point that he proves with G-Stack

Ejaaz:
is, number one, here's an easy and simple way that you can level up your open

Ejaaz:
core agent in a matter of minutes.

Ejaaz:
Use his framework and architecture and just fill in the blanks,

Ejaaz:
like add in the details for your specific project.

Ejaaz:
And you now have an amazing blueprint to build an amazing open core agent.

Ejaaz:
But number two, how easy is it that it just requires two documents that you

Ejaaz:
can spin up on your MacBook or on your laptop right now that can change your agent for the better.

Ejaaz:
So the criticism for a bunch of industry folk was like, Gary,

Ejaaz:
this is amazing, but this isn't anything necessarily novel.

Ejaaz:
It's a skill issue. You need to be able to articulate.

Ejaaz:
And that's basically something that is very apparent in the AI age.

Ejaaz:
It's moved from being able to know how to code to be able to know how to communicate and explain.

Ejaaz:
And that's the trend that we see with OpenClaw and a bunch of these other AILLMs.

Josh:
And thankfully, all of this explaining happens in plain English.

Josh:
And I think that's the most exciting and empowering part is it doesn't require

Josh:
you to be technical or to be a developer in order to improve these things.

Josh:
You just need to speak to it and kind of coerce it into doing the things that

Josh:
you want to do, whether it be through Anthropic and Claude or through the OpenClaw

Josh:
instance that is fully open source.

Josh:
There is so much customization to be had and

Josh:
i think it's kind of on you to decide where you fall

Josh:
on the spectrum of plug and play where you just kind of want a

Josh:
claw on rails that something like anthropic can provide to you or if you're

Josh:
the tinkering type who really wants to build custom stacks like that mother

Josh:
who is using it to help her parents or a company that is built being built around

Josh:
creating pools there is no limit to the use cases you can find it's just a matter

Josh:
of your preferences and how you

Josh:
want to engage with this but it very much seems like this This is the new,

Josh:
architecture that's going to stick around. This is kind of the foundation of

Josh:
what an AI first operating system could look like.

Josh:
And it's very clear that all these companies are converging on the same conclusion that this is true.

Josh:
And this is a very important part of the stack to own. And I think the one thing

Josh:
that is for sure is we are going to see this continued improvement and progress

Josh:
on this at a very rapid rate.

Josh:
I mean, Anthropic, they've been on fire, man. They've been releasing new features

Josh:
for this every single day at this point.

Josh:
So I encourage anyone with an account anywhere, really, just to try it out and

Josh:
start flexing that muscle to see where it can improve these whatever parts of your life.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, I wonder where this is going over the next couple of years.

Ejaaz:
You have all these companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars to either

Ejaaz:
acquire the thing or build the thing.

Ejaaz:
They're all kind of building similar products. I think what it's ultimately

Ejaaz:
going to come down to is the data and context that you can use to train these things.

Ejaaz:
After all, that's what like made it a differentiated product.

Ejaaz:
And that's what makes it an exceptionally good AI operating system.

Ejaaz:
Two companies that I've noticed haven't really got a version of this,

Ejaaz:
but probably should, is Google. Well, Google actually does.

Ejaaz:
It's called Mariner, right? But no one's ever heard of that, right?

Ejaaz:
No, but no one seems to use that. And they seem to have kind of like left that

Ejaaz:
by the wayside to focus on their main LLM.

Ejaaz:
And the other is Apple, who I'm actually more optimistic on because I know that

Ejaaz:
they've signed the deal with Google Gemini,

Ejaaz:
and they're going to be launching AI Siri hopefully for the fifth time on a

Ejaaz:
failed attempt later this year which should end up becoming a really useful version of

Ejaaz:
Their open claw agent. So I'm excited for these companies to launch their things.

Ejaaz:
But I believe that is all we have for this episode.

Ejaaz:
As Josh mentioned earlier, if you are listening to this, and if you are inspired

Ejaaz:
by either the closed sandbox version from Anthropic,

Ejaaz:
or the open source version from a PicoClaw or an IronClaw, please,

Ejaaz:
we encourage you to go out and use these things because there is a draught of

Ejaaz:
viable use cases for a few of these different AI things. Everyone has ideas,

Ejaaz:
but no one's actually building the thing.

Ejaaz:
It's never been easier to vibe code a custom AI agent. And we want to hear what

Ejaaz:
you guys are interested in and are building.

Ejaaz:
If you are a listener on this show and you aren't subscribed,

Ejaaz:
please do so. Or if you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please give us a rating.

Ejaaz:
Leave us a comment. We always love hearing feedback from you guys.

Josh:
And we'll be back tomorrow for the weekly roundup and possibly a surprise.

Josh:
There's a rumor in the mill that Opus 4.7 is coming.

Josh:
So we may have some big news dropping later this week. We'll see.

Josh:
But we will be here to monitor the situation as always.

Josh:
And as always, Also, thank you so much for listening, for watching wherever

Josh:
you are, and we'll see you guys in the next one.