Limitless: An AI Podcast

Ejaaz:
Over the last eight weeks, Anthropic shipped more products than companies do over the entire year.

Ejaaz:
Eight new features that completely replace OpenClaw. Claude Cowork that automates

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your desktop work, Claude Cowork that reviews and edits your code,

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and just yesterday, they released computer use.

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Claude can now access and operate your entire computer. That means any file,

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any tool, any app Claude can access and intelligently operate,

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your own digital worker that lives on your computer.

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Each of these features individually are great, but collectively they form something much more powerful.

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A new AI native operating system, maybe we call it Claude OS,

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that competes directly with Apple Mac OS and Windows.

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Claude is now no longer a chatbot or an LLM.

Ejaaz:
It has become an entire AI operating system and that is much more powerful than

Ejaaz:
anything we've seen before.

Josh:
There's a few like, oh my god, I can't believe it could do this moments that

Josh:
have happened fairly recently.

Josh:
One of them is when it took over my browser for the first time.

Josh:
I'll never forget the moment where suddenly a browser opens up my screen and

Josh:
pages start opening and an AI starts interfacing with the system on my machine.

Josh:
And that just happened again yesterday when for the first time the AI took my

Josh:
cursor on my display, moved it around, clicked on things, changed my window

Josh:
sizes, moved sliders around. It actually took over.

Josh:
It reached through the computer and started doing things on my desktop.

Josh:
It was unbelievable. And I know that people who use OpenClaw,

Josh:
they're like, we've had this for months and weeks and like for a very long time.

Josh:
But this works with all of the infrastructure that I already have and that I

Josh:
trust. It's very cool and it's very powerful.

Josh:
There's essentially no limit to the possibilities in which it could do when

Josh:
it comes to engaging with your machine.

Ejaaz:
It is very slow. It's a little bit clunky, but this is the worst this feature is ever going to be.

Ejaaz:
And the crazy part is you can give Claude access to anything on your computer,

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even if it is a work portal or if it is a email or Slack or calendar,

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it can now do things autonomously and intelligently for you,

Ejaaz:
which is a massive jump up from Claude Cowork or anything that we've seen before

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which has been limited by apis or connectors or plugins

Ejaaz:
This is Claude looking at the screen and operating just like you would as a human.

Josh:
You could be anywhere in the world and you could text Claude through dispatch

Josh:
and it will actually use your computer and it can do anything.

Josh:
If you wanted to edit a photo, you could have it open up Photoshop and drag the sliders.

Josh:
If you wanted to create you a playlist on Spotify, it can open up your Spotify

Josh:
window and create a playlist for you.

Josh:
It's also important to note how this works because it takes a little while before

Josh:
you actually get to this point.

Josh:
What it will do prior to this when you ask it something is try to sift

Josh:
through the connectors that you already have with the

Josh:
cloud application so if you want it to interface with slack

Josh:
or if you want to interface with google drive or your email or your calendar

Josh:
those are all plugins and connectors that you can add to the cloud desktop application

Josh:
that allows it to interface much quicker than that if there are no connectors

Josh:
if there are no connected accounts then it will defer to actual full computer

Josh:
use where it takes over your mouse it takes over the keyboard it's

Ejaaz:
Very impressive to just see an ai I maneuver my laptop and screen without me even touching it.

Ejaaz:
I just want to pay attention now to the speed of execution that Anthropic has

Ejaaz:
gone on, because this shouldn't be understated.

Ejaaz:
They've shipped all these features which allow and have led up to computer use.

Ejaaz:
Eight weeks. Take a look at this crazy timeline.

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So eight weeks ago, they shipped something called Claude Cowork,

Ejaaz:
which you're seeing on the screen right now.

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And it basically automates a bunch of stuff on your desktop.

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But it's different from computer use because it requires plugins,

Ejaaz:
it requires connectors, it requires different access and permissions to tools.

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Computer use is different because it sees the screen like a human would,

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it moves the mouse like a human would.

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Then a few weeks later, it released a marketplace for enterprise SaaS tools

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released just for enterprise companies.

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And the idea here is they can access any enterprise tool or service,

Ejaaz:
such as a legal Zoom or a legal plugin and do all that contractual work for them.

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And that resulted in a bunch of stocks completely tanking.

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I remember when the legal plugin was released, it resulted in a 35% drop in

Ejaaz:
the major legal stocks within the hour of them announcing it on X, which is pretty insane.

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Then a few weeks later after that, they released Claude Code Review,

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which was like a security tool for your Claude Code.

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They then released Claude Remote Control, which allowed you to text Claude.

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They then released Computer Use, which was funneled by this company called Vercept,

Ejaaz:
which they acquired only four weeks ago.

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The point is, they have been on an absolute blitz.

Ejaaz:
And it's crazy how they've created this open Claude Killer in such a short time.

Josh:
Yeah. So for a lot of companies, we can really only judge them on their product

Josh:
velocity, how fast they're able to ship new and noteworthy features.

Josh:
And hearing the fact that Claude Cowork is eight weeks old is like pretty insane.

Josh:
Eight weeks is not a long time. And in eight weeks, we went from launching the

Josh:
research preview of Cowork to full computer desktop use.

Josh:
So eight weeks from now, you have to imagine not only will all these features be

Josh:
incredibly better than they are today, but there will be far more of them available.

Josh:
The chart that we have on screen here, I guess it's comparing OpenClaw to ClaudeCowork.

Josh:
And as we're comparing these two

Josh:
charts, you'll notice that the core functionality is basically the same.

Josh:
It controls your computer, you can message from your phone, you can message from chat apps.

Josh:
The difference lies within the enterprise and the tools feature set,

Josh:
where enterprise integration, security, governments, none of these are going

Josh:
to actually use the OpenClaw system because of a lot of security concerns.

Josh:
Anthropic, as we know, is built for enterprise solutions. So a lot of companies

Josh:
are going to be trusting this a lot more.

Josh:
A lot of companies are going to trust the fact that Anthropic will implement

Josh:
this more securely, more effectively,

Josh:
and more in a way that's just easier for an enterprise to use.

Josh:
Or if you're just the average user, easier for you to use because you already

Josh:
have all this downloaded on your phone and on your desktop application.

Ejaaz:
And if we remember, it was only, I think, four weeks ago that OpenAI acquired

Ejaaz:
OpenClaw. and presumably they did it to build a very similar thing to what Anthropic

Ejaaz:
just released over the last eight weeks.

Ejaaz:
It's pretty crazy that Anthropic out-shipped them. But to your point,

Ejaaz:
I think Anthropic didn't get engaged with OpenClaw in any way.

Ejaaz:
They actually banned a lot of OpenClaw users from using OpenClaw with Claude

Ejaaz:
because they built their own thing and it's just safer, easier,

Ejaaz:
and probably cheaper to use. If you have a Pro or Mac subscription,

Ejaaz:
you now get access to this.

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It's only functional on macOS for now, but presumably it becomes Windows.

Ejaaz:
Speaking of macOS, and Windows, there is a bigger plan that was revealed to

Ejaaz:
me yesterday when they launched this feature, Josh, which is...

Ejaaz:
If I step away for a second and look at what Anthropik has built,

Ejaaz:
they've built an LLM that can code for you, that can speak to you,

Ejaaz:
that can monitor and use your desktop, that can use your browser for you.

Ejaaz:
It sounds like a new AI operating system.

Ejaaz:
So I can't help but think that Anthropik's grand plan isn't to build the best LLM.

Ejaaz:
It's to build a brand new AI operating system that might compete directly with Windows or Mac OS.

Josh:
Yeah, well, they're doing it without directly saying it. I admire OpenAI for

Josh:
the fact that they've been saying for years now that their sole intention is

Josh:
to build an AI operating system.

Josh:
They want the operating system for your entire life. There wasn't really a blueprint for that.

Josh:
No one really knew quite what that would look like until OpenClaw came around

Josh:
and showed people that, wow, this claw infrastructure is actually kind of cool.

Josh:
It takes the core components of a computer.

Josh:
It has the memory. It has the processing. It has storage.

Josh:
And it applies it to an AI agentic system.

Josh:
And I think once that OpenClaw blueprint became real, once that claw blueprint

Josh:
became real, A lot of companies are now just racing to do that.

Josh:
So now Anthropic, without explicitly saying it, is very much building the Anthropic OS.

Josh:
You have all of their functionality built into one application on your desktop.

Josh:
It's now working with your phone. They're planning to just integrate more and

Josh:
more into this. OpenAI has been trying to.

Josh:
They have clearly been behind because Anthropic has been shipping so quickly recently.

Josh:
And then we have OpenClaw, which feels like the open source Linux version.

Josh:
So if I had to pin each one of these companies to something more relatable today,

Josh:
it's probably OpenClaw is kind of like Linux. It is universal, open source.

Josh:
It is core infrastructure that a lot of people will build on because it is

Josh:
Stable and open source and you have

Josh:
full control over that and then there's anthropic which is probably

Josh:
closer to microsoft i feel and then open ai and

Josh:
chat gpt are close to apple they have the hardware angle

Josh:
incoming they're working with the apple designer johnny ive but each one of

Josh:
these is kind of working to build their own operating system and it's actually

Josh:
working fairly well and you're seeing the early signs of it where it's starting

Josh:
to take over and kind of consume the existing mac operating system that we're

Josh:
using and then i'm sure there is certainly a plan to even displace that?

Ejaaz:
Yeah, so we have this cool visual here, which shows the Claude OS stack as it exists today.

Ejaaz:
You've got the intelligence, which is basically the model called 4.6 Opus and Sonnet.

Ejaaz:
You've got the developer stack, which is called code. You've got the desktop,

Ejaaz:
which is now co-work and the new feature they released yesterday, computer use.

Ejaaz:
They've got mobile via dispatch, so you can text Claude and a bunch of other

Ejaaz:
things and tooling MCP, which creates this entire operating system.

Ejaaz:
I actually kind of disagree with you on Anthropic or Claude being like Windows,

Ejaaz:
I think it's probably more like Apple for one specific reason,

Ejaaz:
which is they seem to be leaning hard into the marketplace, which suggests to

Ejaaz:
me that Anthropic might release their own app store with a range of different

Ejaaz:
plugins that Claude can get access to.

Ejaaz:
Because one thing that computer use, this new feature allows,

Ejaaz:
is developers to build an app for computer use specifically that they can launch

Ejaaz:
on Anthropic's hypothetical app store and give access to the 19 million daily

Ejaaz:
Claude code users which use these different tools.

Ejaaz:
So that distribution, I think, is very attractive.

Ejaaz:
And that's the same kind of attractive distribution that Apple created back in the early days.

Josh:
And what's funny is the market demand is very much reflective of this in terms

Josh:
of daily active users, but also in terms of money.

Josh:
Now, there's been a lot of rumors recently that these companies are going to go public soon.

Josh:
And we kind of had a dry run of what that looks like through this weird company called

Josh:
VCX. Now, there's a venture fund named Fundrise.

Josh:
And what they did is they took their private shareholdings that they have in

Josh:
Anthropic, in OpenAI, in SpaceX, in Databricks, and a few other companies,

Josh:
and they listed it publicly on the stock exchange.

Josh:
That was listed a week ago for about $34 was the IPO price.

Josh:
This morning, it traded at $312 per share. That's a 15 times return on investment

Josh:
over the course of five days.

Josh:
So clearly there is an unbelievable amount of demand for it.

Josh:
And if you run the map on these numbers, it's pretty interesting. So

Josh:
It has a NAV of $19 per share, and this morning it traded at $312 per share,

Josh:
which means the market is valuing a fund, which has $650 million in assets, at $5.8 billion.

Josh:
That's an eight times premium on the assets held in the fund because people

Josh:
are so unbelievably desperate for exposure to these assets, to Anthropic, to OpenAI.

Josh:
They want to be invested in the stock of the future. And the problem with this

Josh:
alignment conversation, particularly in the case of Anthropic,

Josh:
is they're so focused on alignment, on everything but financial alignment, right?

Josh:
It's like, if you want true and total alignment with the mission,

Josh:
there needs to be some sort of vested interest that people can take in it.

Josh:
And that very clearly feels like an IPO.

Josh:
I just don't know why they're taking their sweet time doing it.

Josh:
And what we can do is we can reflect this market sentiment on the IPO that's

Josh:
coming possibly later this year,

Josh:
possibly early next year, through our friends over at Polymarket,

Josh:
who actually have a market built just for this, which is a test to see what

Josh:
the anthropic ipo closing market price will look like on the day that it does

Josh:
ipo and it's pretty high there's an 82 chance it closes over 600 billion dollars

Ejaaz:
What it is right now.

Josh:
Twice what it is right now which means there's a lot of upside there's

Josh:
a lot of excitement around anthropic and

Josh:
you can see the chart has been trending upwards for a little while we have a

Josh:
similar one with open ai and it appears as if open

Josh:
ai is going to be even larger than anthropic by 30

Josh:
to maybe 50 percent so it's funny while we sit here

Josh:
saying how anthropic has so much growth the market still very much believes

Josh:
that open ai is these larger company by a fairly significant margin and they

Josh:
have the average ipo closing market cap at around 952 billion dollars just shy

Josh:
of a trillion so these are going to be absolutely massive launches the only

Josh:
question is when they're going to get here

Josh:
And we'll keep our eye on it and we will keep you posted on the progress towards

Josh:
that. Thank you, Polymarket, for sponsoring this section of the show.

Ejaaz:
And that brings us to the end of the episode. This product and feature is very new.

Ejaaz:
Computer use isn't probably recommended to everyone. Don't give Claude access

Ejaaz:
to your entire computer just yet.

Ejaaz:
Use small, subtle tasks to see if it actually works like we did and showed you today on the episode.

Ejaaz:
We hope you enjoyed it. If you are watching this on YouTube,

Ejaaz:
please like and subscribe and turn on notifications. It helps us out massively.

Ejaaz:
We've been going on an absolute tear. on our recent episodes.

Ejaaz:
The episode that we released on Monday, I believe has currently,

Ejaaz:
as I'm looking at it right now, has hit over 16,000 views, I believe, which is just insane.

Ejaaz:
Thank you guys so much for your support. If you're listening to this on Spotify

Ejaaz:
or Apple Music, please subscribe to us, follow us, give us a five-star rating

Ejaaz:
if you feel that we're worthy of it.

Ejaaz:
Or maybe ask Claude to do it via your desktop.

Ejaaz:
Maybe use computer use, that also helps. Josh, is there anything else you want to share?

Josh:
Yeah, I'd like to encourage everyone to try this. I think everyone will be surprised

Josh:
whether or not you use open claw. I think...

Josh:
Applying this to your personal computer changes things because I'm one of the

Josh:
people that does have an OpenClaw set up.

Josh:
I have my Claw desktop application running with co-work on it all the time.

Josh:
I've been using this Dispense feature and there's a place for both.

Josh:
So I think people who are OpenClaw power users are going to watch this and probably laugh at it.

Josh:
But I wouldn't shy away from the fact that personal computer use versus your

Josh:
kind of workstation that you've set up for OpenClaw is a very big difference.

Josh:
And also the impact that it has in the fact that Anthropic has so many users

Josh:
that are non-technical, that just want to use AI.

Josh:
This is incredibly easy for them to set up. And the desktop application is great.

Josh:
It has the chatbot, it has co-work, and it has code all built in under one roof.

Josh:
And this sounds like a paid show. It's not. I wish they would sponsor us.

Josh:
It's actually just what I use every single day.

Josh:
So it's a good product that's worth trying because it's very reflective of what

Josh:
the future is going to look like, right? It's like, currently we're typing on

Josh:
our computers, we're clicking things.

Josh:
Currently we're far faster than Claude is. But there's a world in the not-so-distant

Josh:
future where that is no longer true.

Josh:
And once that's not true, it unlocks a lot of really powerful use cases.

Josh:
So it's fun to try it now to get an early glimpse of the future.

Josh:
And even though it's slow and it's a little clunky, it's still worth experimenting with.

Josh:
That way you could stay right on the edge with us as we cover all of the news

Josh:
about frontier AI and technology.

Josh:
So like you just said, thank you guys again for joining us, for sharing this

Josh:
with your friends, for being so supportive and writing amazing things in the comments.

Josh:
I have not been able to answer all of them, but try our best to at least read

Josh:
them and just share some gratitudes with you as well.

Josh:
So thank you so much for watching and we'll see you guys in the next episode.

Ejaaz:
See you guys.